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openNarm not YMMV? Videogame
On YMMV.Mortal Kombat Special Forces I found a hidden comment that reads this:
I see Narm all the time on YMMV pages, and the trope page for it mentions that it's YMMV material, not Darth Wiki. Am I missing something, or is the person who added this wrong?
Edited by JRads47openWhy Locked Star Wars Character Sheets?
Does anyone know why the Star Wars – Resistance Heroes page is locked? Finally got around to seeing The Rise of Skywalker, and I just wanted to add to D-0's character description.
I don't see it listed under Locked Pages. There's a thread for cleaning up the more subjective Star Wars pages, like Narm and What An Idiot, but the character sheets should be relatively safe, I hope? I'm not seeing an Edit War in the history or anything, and the last Discussion comment was back in 2018.
Anybody know what the deal is?
openRemove from Bad Writing
I intend to remove this from the Bad Writing Index:
- Dull Surprise: Have your characters emote during events that would make a real person do so. Otherwise, it can make scenes that are intended to be dramatic hard to take seriously.
This can be used intentionally to show someone as stoic or unemotional. Any unintentional examples are due to poor art or acting, not writing. All Literature examples are constructive uses arguing it's impossible for it to be bad due to writing alone.
There was discussion here
about cutting game design trope from the index as they're not writing per-say, but stalled out. Should I wait until we have a consensus on that or go ahead and cut Dull Surprise as there are many examples of it being used to desirable effect?
openIs this an edit war?
So, on YMMV.Deadpool And Wolverine I removed
this entry:
- WTH, Costuming Department?: As great as it is to finally see Jackman wearing the Wolverine cowl, the item ultimately looks cheap and rubbery. One can't help but understand why it hasn't been employed in live-action before.
I removed because most fans liked the mask, and I couldn't find anyone claiming that it looked bad or cheap. However, then I looked through history and found that I removed this
Narm Charm entry that was very similar (and I forgot about):
- Narm Charm: Wolverine's suit on its own doesn't look bad in live action, but the mask is a little ridiculous and has some impractical features, like covering Logan's eyes. But when he put it on, many in the audience, and Deadpool himself, love it anyway despite or because of how ridiculous it looks and because they have waited since 2000 for this to happen.
It was removed per Narm thread
. Now they are not exactly the same and they are different tropes, so I don't think I edit warred, but I wanted to make sure.
resolved Edit war(s)
On this page
, Tropers/bud0011 added
a Narm Charm entry, then re-added it
after it was removed for misuse.
They also did the same
thing
with a misused Hindsight entry, although they did delete it soon after
.
openPossible Edit War on YMMV.TheBookOfBobaFett Live Action TV
Troper StrangeBro
added a Narm entry on YMMV.The Book Of Boba Fett which read:
- Narm: The Chase Scene in "The Streets of Mos Espa" was mocked for its apparent sluggishness, obvious and jarring green-screening, and out-of-place tone (fans observed that a bunch of Cyborg Scooter Riding Mods on gleaming, color-coded "space Vespas" would be more at home in Spy Kids than Star Wars).
openRevert due to awful grammar.
JonathanGulster
's grammar and overall editing is really bad, honestly more than I can expect to be rectified with any number of notifiers. I'll send them, but flagging.
However, I need a mod to revert this page
to before they edited it.
openIs Narm flame bait?
Is Narm supposed to be marked with a Flame Bait banner? The main page is not, but its subpages are.
openCleaning up call of duty modern warfare 2019 Videogame
Okay so uh thanks to you know recent events in Ukraine. Alot of the entries in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019) now come off as rather cringey decrying how the Russian military are depicted here.
It's weird but a lott if it has aged badly.
We have entries commenting on how the Big Bad is correct in his aims because because some of the people he abuses are actually terrorists (unintentionallySymphatetic) or a Demonization which uh if you've been checking events their is now awful with hindsight.
- Demonization: Russians in Modern Warfare are evil, weak, cowardly, and stupid.
- The Russian military is portrayed as monsters who commit Obligatory War Crime after Obligatory War Crime. Evil Russians beating innocent civilians begging for mercy. Evil Russians forcing civilians to watch the public executions of their neighbors. Evil Russians executing unarmed and surrendering civilians en masse. Evil Russians attacking children with intent to kill. Evil Russians nonchalantly executing wounded civilians. Evil Russians torturing helpless and innocent prisoners. Even Nikolai, the one Russian character allied with the protagonists, shows no qualms in kidnapping an innocent woman and child so the protagonists can threaten to execute them in order to psychologically torture the child's father.
- The Russian participation in the conflict in Urzikstan is never shown with an ounce more nuance than "Evil invading Russians are massacring innocent Arabs for no other reason than insane paranoia or outright sadism." Despite the conflict being explicitly called a Civil War, not once do we ever see any actual 'Urzikstanic' natives fighting alongside or cooperating with the Russians. Additionally, the Russians are producing the chemical weapons which are the basis of the plot, which is portrayed as an act of irredeemable evil that automatically qualifies the perpetrator as a terrorist.
- Additionally, Russians are not only shown to be pure evil, but absurdly incompetent. The only successes the Russians have in the story are against completely helpless civilians and children. This is seen most strikingly on a mission where the Russian military is defeated by a group of starving, abused teenage girls with zero combat training. We see this again at the end: in most Call of Duty games the campaign ends with a climatic struggle against an antagonist who is usually able to put up a fight and often expresses some reluctant respect for the protagonist. In Modern Warfare, Farah sneaks up behind the evil Russian general, stabs him, he grabs her and struggles with her a bit, she grabs the knife and stabs him some more while he begs and pleads for his life.
openMore YMMV/BlackWidow2021 issues?
YMMV.Black Widow 2021, which had prior ATT
, has these entries I find suspect.
- Epileptic Trees: Given the controversy around Taskmaster barely resembling the comic character, people are already theorising how to give the character a 'do-over', specifically calling to how Mandarin and Deadpool (two characters who were similarly, controversially overhauled in their respective film debuts) got revamped years later. Ideas range from a Legacy Character approach, having "Antonia" get a sudden personality change, or even just straight-up introducing a comic accurate version with no relation to the version in this movie.
- Narm:
- Dreykov being unable to be harm by the Black Widows through pheromones of all things has been met with a lot of eye rolling from fans, with many raising the question on why Natasha can't simply shoot him from across the room.
Epileptic Trees I think is off the wall improbable speculation about the work itself, not future works, but this could be valid. Narm I'm very certain is misuses as this is more Fridge Logic than unintentionally funny. Thoughts?
openTrolls subpages
reposting here from a Trope Talk thread to see if i can get some more succinct answers about this.
i think trolls might be suffering from a bizarre form of Entry Pimping; it seems one particular user, Inky100, is insistent on making subpages because it's possible even if it isn't necessary. besides LogoJoke.Trolls (the subject of the original thread, deemed too short to be necessary), here's a rundown:
- Analysis.Trolls is blank
- DarthWiki.Trolls and SugarWiki.Trolls are just used to list YMMV tropes—and Not Safe for Work, for some reason. isn't NSFW supposed to be a definition-only page?
- DrinkingGame.Trolls and its subpages are clearly stretching for things to "drink" for—"Whenever you get a Squick, Narm or Tastes Like Diabetes feeling" is on all of them—and also, oddly, provides non-alcoholic alternatives
- FanficRecs.Trolls is blank; FanWorks.Trolls only has one entry and multiple blank folders
- Haiku.Trolls is blank
- WhatCouldHaveBeen.TrollsWorldTour has been brought up before as not exactly being necessary given that there's already a tenuously-necessary WhatCouldHaveBeen.Trolls page
- GravityIsAHarshMistress.Trolls is probably the strangest of all, since Gravity Is a Harsh Mistress is such an omnipresent cartoon trope you don't have to single out every single instance of it on its own subpage
there's a few other oddities besides that which are still valid but definitely read like someone hoping to pad out subpages to make the series look more important than it really is, like Recap.Trolls (which has subpages for all of the individual entries in the series, kind of defeating the point), Timeline.Trolls (the extensive and confusing timeline of the trolls universe?), and Memes.Trolls (most YMMV pages have longer "memetic mutation" sections than this). i'm not exactly sure what to do with all this, but it's really strange.
besides cutlisting the blank pages, is there anything that should be done about the others?
openWhy is Narm FlameBait in some areas but not in others?
I noticed that Narm is not flagged as Flame Bait when listed in a YMMV page, but is when it's an entire page dedicated to it. I can't seem to find the TRS discussing this, so I'm asking right here.
openNarm and ''The Imitation Game''
So, the YMMV page
for The Imitation Game keeps having disputes over Narm entries.
First fearlessnikki
adds
an entry talking about a low-ranking officer making a call. MisterApes-a-lot
then deletes it, stating "This is more of a Fridge Logic nitpick than an example of a dramatic thing that is both funny and cheesy."
fearlessnikki later adds two more
Narm entries, one about a character worrying over their brother that did not exist in real life, and one about Turing saying he can't speak German when he did in real life. One entry once again mentions that a low-ranking officer making a call is unrealistic.
I deleted these entries (unaware of the previous edits), with this reason: "Deleting these Narm entries because they're reliant on outside knowledge, i.e. "This is Narm if you know...""
Ninja857142
re-added
both examples, saying, "These entries still qualify as Narm for viewers who are aware of the relevant facts. The point of YMMV entries is that they are subjective."
I don't think this is an edit war exactly, but I'd like some input here. I recall from previous Narm discussions that an example doesn't count if it's dependent on the viewer being knowledgeable of something outside of the work.
openNarm - flame bait status?
Narm is marked as a YMMV trope, but not Flame Bait.
However, the medium-specific subpages for Narm are marked as Flame Bait.
Shouldn't Narm itself be marked that way?
Or is the intent really that mediums with no subpage (E.g. Tabletop Game) can continue to add Narm to their works' ymmv pages, and can crosswick to the main Narm page without ever seeing those flamebait warnings?
Thanks!
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openEdit war on YMMV.AtelierShallieAlchemistsOfTheDuskSea
Rebochan added this example to YMMV.Atelier Shallie Alchemists Of The Dusk Sea:
- Narm: While fans often debate over the correct way to pronounce "Atelier" (a french word)... everyone agrees you should not say it like they do in *this* game.
I removed it due to being misuse of Narm (it doesn't explain why this turns dramatic scenes funny, it's just complaining about mispronouncing a word). They added it back with this edit reason:
openEdit warring on ymmv page of JaneTheVirgin Live Action TV
Troper Sabat has been Edit Waring on the ymmv page of Jane the Virgin. They added these two entries several times despite being removed by two other people on the grounds of having racist leanings as well as coming off as biased.
Here are the entries in question: Anvilicious: This show has addressed the subject of illegal immigration in a one-sided manner, but it is especially obvious in Chapter 61, which dedicates another Alba subplot to the issue, finally culminating in Mateo asking "why some people don't want peace" in America.
- Strawman Has a Point: While the snooty white woman in Chapter 61 who informed a Spanish-speaking guest that "This is America. You should learn to speak English," was rude, many people would agree that if you live somewhere, you should know how to speak their language. Alba later reciting the Preamble of the Constitution as a retort comes across very Narm, as well.
As well as the Edit history
openEdit War in YMMV/StevenUniverse
Back in July, The Lucky Cat added this to the Narm section of Steven Universe:
- Lapis Lazuli is the only person unaffected by Blue Diamond's Emotion Bomb and gives what's obviously meant to be a Badass Boast, but she looks so finicky smug and her attacks prove to do nothing more than annoy Blue Diamond, it just comes off as trying way to hard.
This is literally no one else's opinion. Everyone in the fandom thinks this scene was amazing, especially Lapis' delivery. As such, Emerald 141 removed the example.
A few hours ago, The Lucky Cat added a somewhat edited version of the entry back to the page:
- Lapis Lazuli's attempted Badass Boast in "Reunited" just comes off as kind of melodramatic and silly, especially with her smirking face.
- Lapis: I've had worse.
Also, and this probably isn't the point right now, but she wasn't smirking.
openNarm cleanup? Film
Does anyone know if there's there a Narm cleanup thread? I've often seen whiny examples, but Narm.Star Wars really takes the cake (and eats it, and comes back for more).

This entry keeps getting taken out, then put back in by ajbit26 (Let me know if I'm not supposed to name them):
It's a misuse of narm, I'm pretty sure. And it's just unnecessary complaining. Thoughts?