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openOf Narm and subpages
So I've discovered a fairly cut-and-dry example of Narm in a Tabletop Game that doesn't currently have a page on the wiki—specifically, an incident where a monster in a game was renamed by the designers because fans pointed out that the original name was unintentionally goofy. However, unlike a lot of other "broad-spectrum" YMMV tropes (like Ho Yay or Friendly Fandoms), Narm doesn't have either a Tabletop Games section or an "Other" section to collect a lot of the examples from smaller media.
The question is, what should I do if I want to add the example?
- Create an "Other examples" section on the main page that isn't in a subpage, and make a Tabletop Games folder there
- Create an "Other" subpage, and create a "Tabletop Games" folder there
- Create a "Tabletop Games" subpage and just use that
(Observation: Although Narm doesn't have a Tabletop Games section, Narm Charm does...)
openComplaining? Music
While looking at YMMV.Clean Bandit, I found an odd entry:
- Narm Charm: The pre-choruses of "Rockabye" about the protagonist's love for her child and her wish for him to have a better life are so emotionally vibrant that most fans don't notice or care how bad the writing is.
The thing is, I haven't seen complaints about the song's writing. This entry also seems like it's insulting the fanbase. May I remove it?
openPossible Edit War on YMMV.TheBookOfBobaFett Live Action TV
Troper StrangeBro
added a Narm entry on YMMV.The Book Of Boba Fett which read:
- Narm: The Chase Scene in "The Streets of Mos Espa" was mocked for its apparent sluggishness, obvious and jarring green-screening, and out-of-place tone (fans observed that a bunch of Cyborg Scooter Riding Mods on gleaming, color-coded "space Vespas" would be more at home in Spy Kids than Star Wars).
open[Resolved] Narm Flamebait?
Narm's subpages have the Flame Bait header on them even though Narm itself does not and they aren't listed anywhere else, and I've been wondering how does that work.
Edited by AmonimusopenTroper re-added incorrect trope by potholing it in another entry
The troper yin_13147 had Translation Train Wreck listed on the Qian Qiu YMMV page and even made a subpage (now deleted) that listed translation complaints about the official subtitles. Based on what the YMMV entry and examples said, the official translation isn't awful enough to qualify for the trope (it has laughable issues but it's still comprehensible and only partly mistranslated). I can't retrieve the old examples, but here's some links
with screenshots
of the official subtitles
that show it isn't Translation Train Wreck levels of bad as a whole.
I removed the trope from the YMMV page
with an edit reason and had the subpage cutlisted while moving some examples to the main page under Lost in Translation (I made a mistake here as most of the examples didn't apply to that trope either, but that's been fixed now). The troper just recently re-added TranslationTrainWreck
to YMMV by potholing it in another entry under Narm ("But mistranslations mistranslations and atrociously-phrased dialogue dialogue aside, [...]"). I've explained to them in a message why the trope doesn't apply to the work, but may I remove that pothole at least?
May be worth mentioning that the troper seems to be obsessed with talking about the work's translation quality, as they also previously made a Qian Qiu Lost in Translation subpage (also cutlisted) just to replicate the examples from the old Translation Train Wreck subpage and list other errors/critique.
openTwo issues with YMMV/It2017
On It (2017), there was this line by troper Youtubenut:
- Narm:
- For some, Pennywise's voice. Bill Skarsgård was clearly going for a more childish take on Pennywise's voice but ended up sounding a little too much like a mentally challenged Scooby-Doo.
As an autistic person I was annoyed at the comparison, but I wanted to bring it here to make sure I'm allowed to change the wording, and looking for suggestions on what I should change it to. Don't wanna come across as Righting Great Wrongs, but that felt... a little ableist, to put it mildly. Especially because Pennywise is a horrifying villain.
Additionally, there's this:
- Draco in Leather Pants:
- Pennywise. You read that right. Not the handsome actor Bill Skarsgård, Pennywise. The man-eating, child-torturing, pedophilically-toned shapeshifting Monster Clown has groupies. After all, he appreciates the simple things in life such as popcorn, rides, balloons and of course, children. Entire blogs have sprung up of people wanting to meet Pennywise and have him do very dirty things to them.
I already cut out the link to one blog in question and some extra judgmental commentary that felt unnecessary, citing No Lewdness, No Prudishness. The cut text:
While it's not my thing, per se, I don't think we're here to pass judgment on how other people perceive and consume media. Should I delete the chained sinkholes in the current version of the entry as well (Sarcasm Mode, Blatant Lies, and Comically Missing the Point)?
Edited by annieholmesopenSubjectiveness of Narm
I recently added a Narm entry to the Star Wars: The Clone Wars YMMV page regarding a particular line which totally ruined a scene for me due to what I thought was a very whiny delivery from the VA.
Soon after another troper pounced and removed the edit. They had thought I was criticising the whole scene (which I wasn't, I said the scene was very dramatic other than that one line) and that I needed to provide evidence that other people thought it was Narmy.
Now, I'm not going to get into an edit war over this as it doesn't really matter to me, but I was checking the main page for Narm and it doesn't say anywhere that examples must be supported with evidence that others agree. The main page even states that Narm is completely subjective.
I have also seen multiple examples of Narm from other tropers that I completely disagree with and just look like nitpicking to me (which my Star Wars example probably was as well, to be fair) but I have left these in place because, as I understood it, Narm is supposed to be subjective.
What are your thoughts on this? Should Narm examples provide evidence that others agree? Can we delete other tropers' entries just because we don't agree that it's Narm?
Edited by Sinister_SandwichopenPseudo Edit War
There is a particular example that has been added and removed repeatedly on Eternals. The film introduces a character called Sprite, who became the subject of mockery among some fans due to her green and white costume bringing to mind the logo of the eponymous soda. Timeline below:
- Dog On Roller Skates adds a Narm example comparing Sprite's costume to the soda's logo.
- I remove the example because Narm is for specific moments that are unintentionally funny, not for character designs.
- Dog contacts me via PM, and we agree that WTH, Costuming Department? would be a better trope to describe this audience reaction. The example is thus re-added to the page.
- Dii Archer deletes the example without an edit reason.
- Ciara 25 copies and pastes the original Narm example, bringing us back to square one.
What should be done here? I have checked the Narm cleanup thread enough times to know that this is misuse, but I can't do anything without starting a real Edit War.
openOnce again, a non-existant work wonk Videogame
I initially brought this up in the Complaining thread, but upon further investigation of the culprit's edit history, it was deemed mod attention may be warrented.
Galdodon 99 made some weird edits to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King earlier today.
- “Paper Mario: The Origami Nazi”. Explanation King Olly’s plan for getting rid of all the Paper Toads involves him wishing via the 1,000 Crane Technique that all the Paper Toads go away forever since they share the same face and are poisoning his “perfect world” similar to Adolf Hitler.
And
- Pandering to the Base: While many critics and fans alike praise the game for being a Surprisingly Improved Sequel to its predecessors, a few such as the Villain Army and its Supreme Leader, accuse it of pandering to the people who hated Paper Bowser and his Koopa Troop by having King Olly be the main villain throughout the entire game, while Paper Bowser doesn’t steal back the spotlight from him, though it could just be shock over the eradication of the Paper Toads via the 1,000 Crane Technique. Hell, a review of the game
even said this while bashing the game for holding back Nintendo's development of Mario And Luigi Paper Jam 2, despite its 8.5 review rating.
I expanded the spoiler in the second part myself, but aside from their carelessness or lack of respect for spoiling, other red flags include the memetic mutation being a triple bullet point, and frankly I've never seen that meme around as a meme at least in the relatively decent portions of the internet, and the pothole to a Darth Wiki work and reference to a game that has at no point even been hinted to being planned in the Pandering to the Base.
They also added a justifying edit to another entry, I'll just remove that myself when I'm not on mobile.
After making that initial post, it was observed that they had made edits pertaining to the Villain Army, an unpublished work on Darth Wiki, and Paper Jam 2, which as of yet has not even been teased by any development staff, on other pages as well. This whole thing feels like another episode of the Tropers Obsessed with Works that Don't Exist show.
opentherealryan on the Tales Narm page Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Narm.TalesSeries
So a user called therealryan has been deleting entries claiming they're "annoying" and repeatedly adding an entry to the Arise folder saying "From this game on, this has little to no Narm or Narm Charm." It's been deleted and re-added a lot and I get the feeling he's simply just contesting entries and opinions and the like.
openMark Twain YMMV Literature
Please unlock the YMMV for Mark Twain. I intend to crosswick an approved CM entry for a work which does not exist on the wiki.
- Complete Monster (King Leopold's Soliloquy): King Leopold presents himself as a vicious hypocrite and sanctimonious tyrant who subjects the Free State of the Congo to horrific depravity. Having countless people killed and entire regions depopulated, Leopold demands high taxes and production rates from his supposed subjects, cutting off limbs or even castrating others who cannot meet them. Having people tortured and murdered in huge numbers, Leopold notes one of his mistakes was to have sixty innocents crucified and remarks fewer people would care if he'd them skinned. Uncaring of anything but lining his pockets, Leopold shows his only sympathy is to himself, indifferent to the half-million corpses he has left in his rush for money.
openIs Narm flame bait?
Is Narm supposed to be marked with a Flame Bait banner? The main page is not, but its subpages are.
openEdit war on YMMV/Caillou
Back in January, Boomerang 123 added examples for
Misaimed Fandom and Narm about PBS Kids' announcement that Caillou would be leaving the channel. I brought them up to the Complaining thread
and, as recommended there, removed them
.
Earlier this month, the same troper added both examples back
.
openCrossing must be intentional?
This was deleted from CrossesTheLineTwice.Western Animation:
- "Tanks for the Memories": Rainbow Dash's entire Wangst at her pet tortoise having to hibernate in the winter.
Cleanup
argued it wasn't supposed to be funny so is Narm instead. My questions:
- Does Crosses the Line Twice have to be intentional? (And is this misuse as it fails to explain how it crossed it a first time?)
- Was it supposed to be 100% serious? It was an allegory for death, but that it only last the winter suggestion they didn't want to go all in on the subject. The episode also had more comedy, including moments juxtaposed with Rainbow's Wangst, than "The Perfect Pear", which treated the subject of death 100% seriously.(Asked MLP cleanup.
)
openNarm & Bathos Film
I've got a problem figuring out which one to use. I know what those tropes are and what they do, so it's not the problem with definition - is to figure out which one "fits". But first, a bit of explaination.
Spoor, a movie I've just finished, has a Hysterical Woman as the main character and she has few very, very grating rants throughout the film. It's not only annoying in-universe, but it's just hard to watch her increasingly inane ranting, too. The character, due to such behaviour being her norm, is considered to be the "typical crazy grandma" in-universe... only that in the finale it is revealed it was for the most part (she's still insane) a play and deliberate mislead, both in- and out-of-universe: in reality, her rants were done as a cover-up for the fact she's a murderous lunatic and misdirect the people around her. Lucid enough to perform elaborate murders, yet still very insane Eco-Terrorist, living in her own imaginary world.
So with that covered, I'm thinking if the scenes with her ranting fall under Narm or Bathos. Prior to the reveal, it's just extremely narmalicious (and even after it's still eye-rolling), but with the reveal, the ranting was in fact deliberate and intentional, so the initial reaction it generates from audience can't fall under the definition of narm... but does it qualify under Bathos, given it's not exactly comedic?
I guess I'm explaining it poorly, but it's one of those situations that's not exactly about fitting pegs to the right holes.
openMore YMMV/BlackWidow2021 issues?
YMMV.Black Widow 2021, which had prior ATT
, has these entries I find suspect.
- Epileptic Trees: Given the controversy around Taskmaster barely resembling the comic character, people are already theorising how to give the character a 'do-over', specifically calling to how Mandarin and Deadpool (two characters who were similarly, controversially overhauled in their respective film debuts) got revamped years later. Ideas range from a Legacy Character approach, having "Antonia" get a sudden personality change, or even just straight-up introducing a comic accurate version with no relation to the version in this movie.
- Narm:
- Dreykov being unable to be harm by the Black Widows through pheromones of all things has been met with a lot of eye rolling from fans, with many raising the question on why Natasha can't simply shoot him from across the room.
Epileptic Trees I think is off the wall improbable speculation about the work itself, not future works, but this could be valid. Narm I'm very certain is misuses as this is more Fridge Logic than unintentionally funny. Thoughts?
openWas it necessary to spoiler tag the whole example?
I found 2 ymmv page examples that I find it bothersome because they spoiler tag the whole sentence that include non spoiler words and real life stuff. Here are the examples. From The Predator
- Narm: Autism, particularly the unrealistic Idiot Savant archetype, being considered "evolution's next step". It only avoids being offensive by being laughable, given how inaccurate by evolutionary science standards it is.
- Jerkass Woobie: Max retroactively becomes one following "Parents Day". It was hinted before that his parents were neglectful, but this episode confirms it. He spends most of the day being a brat and acting out of jealousy upon seeing all the other kids hanging out with their parents. Then, not only do his parents never show up, it's revealed they didn't even sign him up for a specific activity. They just didn't want him around. The reminder of this is enough to bring Max to tears.
openEdit War Film
Rice Romp
added the following to Narm.Spider Man Trilogy on March 17th:
I removed it as it was deemed not to be an example by the Narm clean-up thread
Today he added this to the page which, is more or less the same example but with slightly different wording:
openDethroning Entry Removal Web Original
The DethroningMoment.The Mysterious Mr Enter page had this entry removed a while ago:
- legorunnerkid: My moment comes in his Nick-O-Rama review for Monsters vs. Aliens. Ignoring his akward and goofy rants on the animation, he complains about President Hathaway acting like a fool. Afterwards, he plays a clip of Donald Trump. Ignoring any of my opinions on Trump, this felt really out of place in a review for a cartoon. Not made better considering a couple of videos back, he says he doesn't like it when entertainers become political (Extra Credits and Chadtronic) but yet he acts politically here. I came to watch your review because I wanted to see what you thought about the show, not what you think of the president. And if someone who is a Trump supporter watches it, I feel they may not be welcome to the channel because of that scene. I try to be really nice here and try to not complain like a madman, but I feel that most of Enter's fanbase doesn't care about politics or at the very least, are not going to watch a video for his political views. If he is going to be political, it should at least be what the entire video is about.

Okay so uh thanks to you know recent events in Ukraine. Alot of the entries in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019) now come off as rather cringey decrying how the Russian military are depicted here.
It's weird but a lott if it has aged badly.
We have entries commenting on how the Big Bad is correct in his aims because because some of the people he abuses are actually terrorists (unintentionallySymphatetic) or a Demonization which uh if you've been checking events their is now awful with hindsight.