Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
openPsi 001
Psi 001 seems to have a bone to pick with Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time. As mentioned here
, they've written their own opinions on the YMMV page and twisted them to seem like something spread throughout the fandom. They also seem to have a wonk about "PC culture", calling alternate Tawna an attempt to make the Crash series more "politically correct"
. They've also moaned about "PC culture" in the forums, according to Shiny Cotton Candy.
open Deadname on Elliot Page’s page
On May 16, Elliot Page’s deadname was added
to his page. Since deadnaming should always be avoided, can I go ahead and remove it?
(also, I apologize if ATT isn’t the place for this, I just wasn’t sure where else to bring it)
openTroper with nattery and complain-y edits
As mentioned in the Natter Alert
thread, this troper
has a tendency toward making nattery and complain-y edits. The one mentioned in the linked thread was made by them, and it had to be deleted for being too much natter (and complaining, to a lesser extent). That isn't the only edit they've made that falls under this category.
- A similar edit to the one mentioned in the thread above
, complaining about Cartoon Network and Teen Titans Go.
- Two
edits
on Dork Age pages that still have a lot of complaining even by that trope's standards.
- An edit
about Miyamoto preventing Waluigi from appearing in future Mario games that makes Miyamoto out to be a lot more unreasonable.
- And this
.
Their complaints have also spilled onto WMG pages, such as this one
. It's not just the first person writing (which is being phased out, even on WMG, Fridge, and Headscratchers pages), it's also one of those "meta" guesses. And like other edits mentioned above, this one is complaining about a Cartoon Network show.
open"So It Sucks" too soon?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic IDW
- It's the Same, Now It Sucks!: While initially elated to see that the world outside Equestria isn't a Crapsack World, which would had given off vibes of ponies' burden during the Season 10 comics, many readers and reviewers aren't pleased at the reveal of that there are Trees of Harmony in every nation being visited. This made every nation that would have been interesting in their own way just Equestria in the skin of another race, effectively re-creating the show pilot over and over. The biggest compliant is why can't each different country have their own take on friendship, with their own set of values and special location.
The story arc in question is ongoing and still building toward explaining how the separate Trees came to be. I believe it's too soon to say as there might be a reason they're the same (clones, copies?) that's sufficient to disqualify this trope. Any reason not to cut it?
I recall asking about other "So It Sucks" tropes and ATT said it shouldn's count pre-release (which seems the case as the explanation for why they're the same is not out yet).
openRedirect policy and one-man cleanup projects
A while ago, I noticed that Vulkus (who I'm pinging here so they can respond) had started to systematically remove all redirects to The Legend of Zelda: Oracle Games (primarily The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons, the two games in the duology) and replacing them with the main page name. I was a little concerned, primarily because a) most of the examples affected were specific to one game or the other but not shared between them, so I wasn't too clear on the reasoning, b) relatedly, Vulkus did not leave any edit reasons nor links to any discussions to explain what they were doing, and c) this seemed like kind of a big project do out of one's own initiative. I contacted them through PMs to ask what was going on, and they stated that they were in the process of removing all redirects for certain pages that in their opinion had too many (they specifically identified the The Legend of Zelda and Golden Sun games here). Their stated reasoning was that these pages had been given too many redirects by a specific troper and that these redirects clutter up the pages for mobile users, and so they were intending to remove them all.
The primary reason I'm concerned here is that from what I'm understanding of this, this is far too big a project for a single troper to just decide they're going to across the entire site without consulting anyone else — especially if this is supposed to include actively cutting the redirects on all these pages right now instead of "just" editing examples to have a different active link. This was the primary thing I was trying to stress in my messages, but I'm not too certain I got my point across because after a while they simply stopped responding to me but continued right on with their one-troper cleanup project (they finished with the Oracle games, moved on to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and I think they're on The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess right now). Essentially, they decided to undertake a wide-scale wiki project on their own, apparently did not attempt to engage in any discussion over this before implementing it, did not leave justifications in their edit reasons, and simply cut off communication without altering their editing when contacted independently. I'm a little concerned about this.
Regarding the issue itself, I would actually tend to agree with their basic reasoning (a lot of the Zelda redirects are simply truncated or modified versions of the titles that don't seem to have ever actually been used officially, which does mean that they probably shouldn't actually exist) — but this should have been discussed and agreed on publicly, not decided by one person without oversight or input. This is especially so because a number of the redirects are the valid titles of secondary games and re-releases, and it seems to me that they would be the appropriate links to use for tropes and examples specific to them and not the broader and/or base work.
Basically, this should have been taken to the forums, and probably should be taken there still. A dedicated redirect cleanup thread is probably something we could make use of.
openUnilaterally(?) renamed trope
AHI-3000 seems to have unilaterally moved Global Warming to Climate Change (previously a redirect) in December 2020 without even leaving an edit reason. Shouldn't this have been discussed?
openWould Like To Report User
Tropers/Katsuri has been deleting things from the Moriarty the Patriot page without reason. These are all things that happened in the manga.
They have also tried adding a Flame Bait trope to the main page twice now. I've messaged them about it, but they simply redid their edits.
Update: An edit war has started because they refuse to stop deleting tropes that happened in canon.
Edited by Eiryuopenban evader
Looks like ashlyn7
is this ban evader: [1]
[2]
They deleted the exact same content from AwesomeMusic.Star Vs The Forces Of Evil that those other usernames have all deleted. Looking through their edits turns up other deletions too, e.g. [3]
[4]
openDethroning Entry Removal Web Original
The DethroningMoment.The Mysterious Mr Enter page had this entry removed a while ago:
- legorunnerkid: My moment comes in his Nick-O-Rama review for Monsters vs. Aliens. Ignoring his akward and goofy rants on the animation, he complains about President Hathaway acting like a fool. Afterwards, he plays a clip of Donald Trump. Ignoring any of my opinions on Trump, this felt really out of place in a review for a cartoon. Not made better considering a couple of videos back, he says he doesn't like it when entertainers become political (Extra Credits and Chadtronic) but yet he acts politically here. I came to watch your review because I wanted to see what you thought about the show, not what you think of the president. And if someone who is a Trump supporter watches it, I feel they may not be welcome to the channel because of that scene. I try to be really nice here and try to not complain like a madman, but I feel that most of Enter's fanbase doesn't care about politics or at the very least, are not going to watch a video for his political views. If he is going to be political, it should at least be what the entire video is about.
openEdit War on Bleach page
On Bleach Tropes A to B, Tropers.Sarchiapon added the following:
- Szayelaporro's dying hell does not make much sense, from a physical standpoint. Even if his brain needs to wait an eternity to "feel" the lethal wound that Mayuri dealt to him, said wound is already inflicted and the relative damage already done, meaning that Szayel is already dead and his body unable to feel anything at all, let alone wait for it. The fact that is kinda left "alive enough" to wait for his own death is completely senseless.
I removed it
, citing: "That's not how lethal wounds, nor death, work. You can be lethally wounded and yet still in agony. Unless the brain or the nerves have completely shut down, your body can still feel."
Sarchiapon re-added it with no edit reason.
For context, the character Szayelaporro is under the effect of a drug that speeds up his brain activity so fast that mere seconds feel like centuries. His opponent, Mayuri, thus takes sadistic glee in slowly stabbing him through the chest, knowing that from Szayelaporro's perspective, it feels like the blade is slowly inching its way toward his heart over the course of centuries.
To start with, Sarchiapon's example is completely wrong: Szayelaporro hasn't yet taken fatal damage. The entire reason he's in such agony is because though the sword is in his chest, it has not reached his heart. Thus, the "relative damage" is NOT already done; presumably, Sarchiapon is working under videogame logic where as the moment the blow lands, it deals a flat amount of damage, instead of actually obeying biology, whereas the wound must affect a vital area before the damage is done.
On top of that, even IF they were right, as I said in my edit reason, that is NOT how death works. Someone can (for instance), be shot in the heart and still be in complete agony as they wait to bleed out.
EDIT: And yes, I've invited Sarchiapon here to provide their side.
Edited by NubianSatyressopenA bit much?
A new-ish troper named Kribbl has been adding entries to The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's character pages and others gushing about how sexy Zelda is:
- Ms. Fanservice: Downplayed. On paper, she wears modest clothing, but her incredibly snug pants expose her curves. Additionally, both the camera and Link frequently get an eyeful of her large buttocks during the memories.
- Innocent Fanservice Girl: Zelda never notices Link’s peeks at her large butt, which she unknowingly emphasizes with her skintight pants.
- Painted-On Pants: In her traveling outfit, Zelda’s pants are absolutely skintight, emphasizing her voluptuous derrière.
I'm of the opinion that — while the game does include some Male Gaze regarding Zelda — this is a bit excessive, and more to the point seems to misuse Male Gaze. Nothing in the game outright establishes Link as a Covert Pervert either.
Edited by Arawn999openCommented-out examples on Pokemon Snap
I was browsing New Pokémon Snap and its subpages and noticed some examples have commented-out stuff for no apparent reason.
%%** One of the Volcano requests has a nod to the Charmander group shot. If you want, you can knock a Graveler down to buy you some extra time getting a good picture like the Moltres egg did.
%%** A couple of Jynx can work together to revive a rare Ice type Pokemon -- this time, an Aurorus.
or
* GottaCatchThemAll: Once again, catch them ''on film''. %%One achievement has this go further in snapping all twenty of the Vivillon wing patterns when just three or four will do for its Photodex entry.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.NewPokemonSnap
openEdit war on Resident Evil Village YMMV page
We have an edit war on Resident Evil Village.
123ninja
originally wrote an entry for Author's Saving Throw that read:
Emeriin
deleted the example with the edit reason "is 'toning down sex appeal' really such a problem to warrant Author's Saving Throw?"
123ninja then re-added the example with the edit reason "The devs deliberately altered Jill's original outfit for the remake. It's more than 'they just put pants on her'"
What should be done in this situation?
EDIT: Apparently this is not
the first time
123ninja has been brought up regarding questionable edits about female characters' clothing.
openEdit War on YMMV/Castlevania2017.
A short while ago, Troper.Oswald Edswald added these examples
of Critical Dissonance onto the YMMV.Castlevania 2017 page. The examples claim that while critics love the series, fans have been "more mixed". For example, added onto Video Games Movies Suck was:
"Season 3 would become the most divisive season, but still received strong reviews, and Season 4 is widely regarded as an excellent closer. This is primarily among critics though, depending on the fan this trope is either averted or fully played straight."
I deleted both examples, asking: "Where are these negative fan reactions? Everywhere I've looked as been generally positive. Most disappointments are mild."
They rewrote the example and added it back
, stating: "Fan opinions have become more mixed since season 3, even with how many like it a good lot have much more mixed feelings regarding the show".
Via PM, they claimed that said opinions are easy to find...but as I said in response, it's not up to me to find their evidence FOR them. I'm not saying we have to cite the example, but at least showing a few examples of "mixed" reception outside of some random opinions on Twitter and Reddit would be helpful. So far, every single opinion I've seen of Seasons 1, 2 and 4 have been positive. Most fans found Season 3 to be Too Bleak, Stopped Caring and with too many Trapped by Mountain Lions subplots, but it was only for that season. Season 4, from what I can tell, has been overwhelmingly positive save for a few grievances (which do not sour opinions for the most part).
openOverly detailed descriptions for fanservice tropes
Gp H has had a habit over the years of doing edits involving fanservice tropes that tend to go into gratuitous detail of the "one handed posting" variety, and they've done it again over on at least Characters.Pokemon Gym Leaders Unova.
openBrokenMasquerade - no examples list
The trope page Broken Masquerade is a bit... odd. To start, it's sort of written "in character", like the writer is part of the masquerade and is delivering The Reveal to the reader. From what I've seen, that sort of thing seems to be used more in Self-Demonstrating/ pages than Main/. Maybe this is actually okay; it just struck me as a bit unusual.
The bigger issue, though, is that there isn't an example list. There's a subbullet under each main "type" of masquerade (like Tomato in the Mirror, Hidden Realm, etc) with a list of "Signature Examples" provided, but it's just a list of works with no explanation of how they fit.
Is it okay to restructure it like a typical trope page, with examples in a separate section? Broken Masquerade currently has 752 wicks, so I could probably find at least a 5-10 good examples to start off the crosswicking.
Edited by Willowleaf24openEdit War on Interactive Movie Videogame
Crossposting from this thread
.
Last month, Jake added "Five Nights At Freddys 1 - 4" to the Interactive Movie index, with a note saying the later games are Point and Click Games. Shortly after, I deleted it, with the edit reason that they are not Interactive Movies but that they do have Pre-Rendered Graphics. A little over a week ago, they readded it but changed it to just the first two FNAF games, and that FNAF3 and beyond are the Point and Click Games.
I still do not believe any FNAF game counts as an Interactive Movie. Only a small part of the gameplay involves pre-recorded videos, but you never actually directly interact with those parts anyway, because the goal of the game is to prevent those videos from playing in the first place. Pre-Rendered Graphics on a loop are not the same thing as pre-recorded videos.
The bulk of FNAF's gameplay is Resource Management, and FNAFs 3 and 4 play almost identically to FNAFs 1 and 2, so I don't understand why they're excluding them now.
If people disagree, then okay, I'll drop it.
Edited by Primis

On April 12th, 2021, while reading the forum on Questionable Questing for the fanfic "Codes And Geass: Embracing Your Inner Megalomania", I came across a user under the belief that the author of the fic, Tropers/Trickster_Priest, was applying Ron the Death Eater to the characters of Nagisa Chiba and Shogo Asahina.
- Ron the Death Eater: Like many other fanfics, Chiba and Asahina fall victim to this. Contrasted with canon where, while the two are shown more distrustful of Zero after he abandoned them during the Black Rebellion and appeared unapologetic when he returned, and only betrayed him when given sufficient evidence to suggest he crossed the line, the Geass Order massacre for Asahina and the doctored evidence Schneizel provided for Chiba, here they are depicted as disloyal and belligerent from the outset, not helped by Trollouche going out of his way to antagonize them. For specifics though:
- Asahina is made out to be against Trollouche's leadership from the start, to the point he secretly aids an attempted coup d'etat and alliance with the Chinese Federation, and then subjected to a Uriah Gambit as punishment, said gambit resulting in his death due to Kewell emerging in the Siegfried.
- Chiba regularly badmouths Trollouche, stirred up unrest against the Britannian members of the Black Knights, and attempted to convince Tohdoh to stage another coup while Trollouche was comatose, only failing because Tohdoh had Undying Loyalty to Trollouche and C.C. was listening in, the latter of whom Chiba attacks upon discovering her listening in, only for C.C. to nearly kill as a means of putting the fear of god into her, and only spares her due to Tohdoh promising to kill her himself if she continues her treasonous behavior.
The part about Trollouche going out of his way to antagonize them being something even the main page noted.- Butt-Monkey: Ohgi, Asahina, and Chiba all are on Trollouche's shit list because he remembers who was responsible for the betrayal in canon.
- The Chew Toy: Trollouche goes out of his way to provoke people he doesn't like, particularly Chiba and Asahina of the Four Holy Swords. YMMV as to whether he's justified in blaming them for the events of the original timeline or not.
As Trickster Priest has tried dictating what does and doesn't go on the page beforeAfter adding it, Tropers/shadowwolf75 decided to immediately remove it, their edit reason being:
- Hi, I'm not trickster and you are still wrong; the difference here was Lelouch being more aggressive in calling it out because he remembered they were trouble before, they had NEVER liked him in canon and fucked him over later, and thus it does not fall to the extremes of Ron The Deatheater
After double checking the forum, I found that Tropers/shadowwolf75 had been a staunch defender of Trickster Priest, and likewise did not respond kindly to anirock's accusation, resorting to personal attacking rather than making an actual argument against the idea:- This is a YMMV trope. There are users in the forum who see this to be the case as they call out Trickster Priest for bashing. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you can remove a subjective trope, since you are only a single person. Take it up with trope repair threads if you absolutely must. Otherwise, remove it again, it's officially an Edit War.
And rather than clog up the Edit Reason with my rambling, I sent a message to shadowwolf75 explaining how Chiba and Asahina were not as shadowwolf75 described them. And yes, I did in fact go back to watch the episodes so as to make sure I didn't misremember anything and had my facts straight.While that initially appeared to be the end of it... Trickster Priest edited the page themself using the fact they were the author as justification in blatant defiance of "The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours". They additionally accused me of being anirock and doing this just because they didn't agree with "me".
- I however, am Trickster. And you are misrepresenting the situation and ignoring the nuances. And pulling this because I disagreed with your interpretation in the thread on QQ is especially galling.
Except, as I made clear in my initial edit reason, I was avoiding posting in the forum rather than actually posting there. I am not anirocks, and I only have an account on QQ to actually read the fanfic due to needing an account to access it, my account having the same name as my handle on this site.This has escalated into a full out Edit War, and rather than do something stupid like restore the entry again or argue with Trickster Priest, I decided it prudent to take the matter to ATT, as Trickster Priest is blatantly ignoring Administrivia, and this is not the first time they have done so. And rather than argue as to why the trope doesn't apply, they instead accuse me of misinterpreting things and being a sockpuppet account for a different user with similar objections. So I am requesting ATT to step in to resolve this dispute.
Edited by RebelFalcon