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Ask the Tropers:
openRemoving Spoilers on Character Pages, Rudeness Videogame
Tropers.Another Guy made multiple edits to Halo: UNSC Navy removing spoiler tags, each with the same rather rude edit reason ("There. Are. NO. Spoiler. Tags. Here.") This includes ones for the just-released Halo Infinite. I'm not up on the latest policy but AFAIK there's nothing against having spoilers on character pages unless the community collectively decides to make it Spoilers Off, and even then I haven't seen any indication of such a consensus beyond a general "Beware of spoilers on all of these pages." line on the main Characters.Halo index.
Edited by Dirtyblue929open Vandalism by a troper Videogame
When I was looking at the YMMV page for Perdition, I found this rather... hostile block of text from mcloud replacing a good chunk of the other entries that seemed clearly meant for the CM cleanup thread.
""But sometimes, like Madam Satan, making a villain complex is good for the character." Beast is a dumbass lol, Queen Myrrah actually isn't complex at all, backstory or not, one note cliche "kill all humans" villain isn't "complex" regardless of a barely relevant backstory in Gears 5 lmfao. "Higgs is a complex case, but that complexity leads to his belief in freeing humanity from their suffering." No it doesn't actually, he's also one note and kinda sucks. Lightysnake lmao. "Because he's too nuanced of a character, I mean how couldn't you feel for him when he-" There is no such thing as "too nuanced" to count as pure evil actually lol trash. "He doesn't seem to care for pure evil villains." Maybe Yokotaro and Toby Fox don't, maybe they do, you don't get to make assumptions on stuff you don't know though lol. Polarphantom garbage. "Small indie games like these aren't usually as anticipated as say, Metroid Dread." Master N's an idiot, just because they aren't "usually as anticipated" doesn't mean they aren't anticipated lol. Many indie games small or no are anticipated by someone actually. Also "small" is vague and confusing in that context. "We typically don't apply the two week rule to small indie games like this, since it's unlikely anyone cares enough to be spoiled." Except people actually do care enough to be spoiled often so it doesn't matter. "Rafe hardly meets the baseline of heinousness while also having enough nuance to keep him away." There's actually no such thing as "too much nuance" to count as pure evil."
I looked at his edit history, and that's the only thing that was in there. So uh... yeah. Ban perhaps?
openMore fighting game Quotes nonsense Videogame
Quotes.Street Fighter V appears to be every single victory quote.
Also, last call before I remove the entire clash quotes section from Quotes.Injustice Gods Among Us.
Edited by RallyBot2openTroper with persistent spoiler formating problems and speculations. Videogame
DracoAlpha
has persistent issues over the months— no, years, regarding troping unreleased content and putting trope names in spoiler tags. And this has been going on for several DLC news regarding Destiny and its sequel. At some point, things have to stop. If you're not going to heed editing issue notifiers, then what's the point of using them in the first place?
openAggressive edits on Destiny 2 Videogame
Ano Baka Desu left aggressive edit reasons, one in regards to “shoehorning” and another simply titled “No.” when removing some canon moments that happened. Not a fantastic edit reason, I’d say.
openEdit War Videogame
Apocrypha added an example of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot to YMMV.The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim. Zaptech removed it, saying it's an invalid example. Apocrypha then added it back, starting an Edit War.
openWeird edits? Videogame
Most of Steelheart
's edits consist of removing all CamelCase to replace with url links and then switching them back on various pages. It's very odd, and I've PMed them to explain since there's no edit reason, but I'm just putting this query here in case there's no response and to see if others have any opinion.
openSpam in review comments Videogame
A rather old one I came across.
open[Resolved] User ignoring removal edit reasons Videogame
I Am Not A Funguy seems to be on a long spree
of creating game pages, indexing them, and immediately adding them to both Administrivia.Pages Needing Wiki Magic and Administrivia.Works Needing Tropes. While I'm not questioning (maybe I should) why can't they come up with 10 tropes themselves, they were (Oct 11th 2021)
told again
, then again
by Graf von Tirol, that Administrivia.Pages Needing Wiki Magic is not for Works Needing Tropes only (I can't check if they were warned before Adminsitrivia.Needs Wiki Magic Love got moved), which they've now dismissed completely
.
What action should be necessary?
Note, though not immediately related: they were tapped by mods
for ZCE in 2015, 2016 and 2018, so their new work pages may need a review.
openEdit war over the Genshin Impact anniversary debacle Videogame
HopeSoSure
has added entries complaining about Genshin Impact's 1st anniversary fiasco (TL;DR: unsubstantial rewards that many felt was like a slap in the face, in turn leading to the fandom overreacting to the point of review-bombing not just GI, but also other games), which
were
summarily
removed
on grounds of Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement and violating waiting periods on Broken Base and Overshadowed by Controversy (with an additional grammar notifier).
HopeSoSure has then moved on to reinstate
some
of those examples, sometimes commented out.
openQuestionably accurate Unfortunate Implications claim? Videogame
Most of the pages for Cyberpunk 2077 are currently locked due to the massive post-release backlash over the game's rocky launch, but I noticed this slipped into the YMMV page's Unfortunate Implications entry at some point and I'm wondering if I should request its removal in the Locked Pages thread:
- The game's cyberpunk credentials have been called into question with the fact that it is a corporate produced product where V spends a lot of his time actively working for the police, corporations, and rich clients rather than actively rebelling against them.
- The game's cyberpunk credentials have been called into question with the fact that it is a corporate produced product where V spends a lot of his time actively working for the police, corporations, and rich clients rather than actively rebelling against them.
There's a few things to note here. First, this entry appears to have been added in a failed attempt at starting an entire UE subpage for the game, which got cutlisted for a lack of examples (it had like, three total, and I'm willing to bet its creation was at least partially a bad-faith knee-jerk reaction due to the afore-mentioned backlash).
Second, while the source it's citing is legitimate, all three points it's making are... mostly wrong? They're all either exaggerated or misinterpreted, seemingly due to the writer of the article being uninvested in the gameplay and story. To summarize:
- While the game does have a number of side-activities known as "Police Scanner Hustles" which could be interpreted by someone not paying attention as you doing contract work for the Police, the majority of them are you using your illegal police scanner to arrive at crime scenes before the cops do, kill the perps, and steal any valuables they have on them before the cops can bag them as evidence.
- The only parts of the game where you can directly work for a corporation are the "Corpo" lifepath's prologue, where your corrupt boss makes you a patsy for his crimes and you get fired, a sidequest involving a film production corporation where you're more working for their lead actor than them, and the game's Bad Ending, which frames your decision to side with a corporation as a Deal with the Devil where you've essentially sold your soul for an easy out to your problem. The other endings involve you actively assaulting the headquarters of a major corporation.
- Aside from the corporations the only truly wealthy people you ever work for are a burnt-out rockstar desperate for a real friend, a pop star who turns out to be slightly psychotic, and a struggling politician - the only honest one in the entire city - and his wife, who are actively trying to change things for the better and help the needy. The sidequest for the politicians ends in tragedy and frames their efforts as pointless in the face of the corrupt, dystopian political system they're a part of.
I admit the article has a point about the game not having any profound or socially relevant themes in its main story, but to say that it actively endorses dystopic capitalism like this entry implies seems absurd to me. Still, the article is genuine and comes from a reputable source, so I'm not sure if it's really violating any guidelines.
Edited by Dirtyblue929openWhy was the Scarlet Hollow video game page cut but the character page left alone? Videogame
The page error said it created red links and abandoned inbound links. Can it be remade? Why was it deleted in the first place?
openCreator editing YMMV tab of their mod VideoGame/TheFrontier Videogame
Nazothedark admitted in their edit of The Frontier that they worked on developing the mod, making them a creator. The edit should be reverted in that case right? Unrelated, but given the ALL CAPS nature of their edit, perhaps it's also a hostile one?
Edited by VeryMelonopenEdit War alert Videogame
Yesterday, Ame 14 added Student Union to Ren'Py-based games that have a page on this wiki index. As you can see, it is red link, so Koveras commented it out and explain in the edit reason that it's a list of games that has pages here.
Today, Ame 14 uncommented it despite it is still a red link (Koveras also commented it out again, but I see no problem with that).
openDragon Quest V Complaning and Misuse of Woolseyism Videogame
Woolseyism: Almost everything has been renamed in the English localization. If you don't dig the Punny Names and the Narm Charm of the localization, this game will be a Macekre for you. Especially if you've already played the much more faithful fan translation of the original SNES game.
I dont know if the Complaining is kosher or not but this is most definitely a misuse of Woolseyism.
openFrustrated by lack of discussion. Videogame
I recently bore witness to what, in my mind, is an... overzealous pruning of the That One Boss page for Bloodborne, with one user making the argument that every boss not 100% necessary for game completion is a Bonus Boss, and therefore ineligible for inclusion. And that therefore all DLC bosses are "Bonus Bosses," and so on.
Now, I disagree with this interpretation, for reasons I've laid out on that page's discussion, in addition to the fact that it sure sounds like a lot of semantic trickery. But, when I tried to argue my case there, the user that instigated the original cuts stonewalled me and told me to argue my case on the Cleanup Thread; that they were only following the definition of the trope as listed (which I can't argue they are, if in the most narrow-minded and hamfisted way possible).
So, I did. And there's been no response, either from the party I'm in dispute with or any potential useful third parties.
I guess my question is, what should I do when I don't want to edit-war and would love to try to discuss my issues in a reasonable and respectful way, but the other party simply insists their point of view is correct and denies me the chance to plead my case in either of the two provided fora?
Edited by SpectralTimeopenYMMV Fire Emblem Edits Videogame
So there's this user called 0219110 who does huge edits to YMMV pages for several Fire Emblem titles, namely Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon & the Blade of Light, Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem, Fire Emblem: Thracia 776, Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade, Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, and Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. They removed a lot of entries without the justification why, and while some of their entries are more representative of the series' fans opinions today than in the past, the new edits are written poorly (no punctuation in some places, unfinished sentences, etc).
I'm bringing this here because nobody reads the Discussion pages, this issue covers multiple pages/titles, and the series forum page isn't the place to talk about it.
openVideoGame/SonicForces actually DarkerAndEdgier? Videogame
An excerpt from the Sonic Forces trope page:
- Darker and Edgier:
- Eggman has managed to take over the world, and the first gameplay trailer
shows Modern Sonic fighting robots in an utterly decimated city. Eggman's robot armies have also shifted from signature cutesy types of the past, and even the Egg Pawns that have been recurring since Sonic Heroes have been redesigned into much more stoic, artificial-looking machines with visible weaponry and Glowing Eyes of Doom.
- The Avatar seems to be carrying a gadget called a "Wispon," which effectively utilizes Wisp powers in forms like the Red Wisp as a flamethrower, heavily implying that the Resistance essentially has no choice but to resort to making powerful weapons to return the favor against Eggman's forces.
- The Story Trailer
reveals Doctor Eggman is preparing to destroy Sonic and friends for good. Granted, he tried this before, but this time, he's closer to succeeding than ever before.
- Eggman has managed to take over the world, and the first gameplay trailer
The first point is based on the trailer, the second is Fridge Logic/Horror, and the third isn't a strong supporter for the game's Darker and Edgier status (Dr. Eggman tries to kill Sonic and co. every game, and just because he came closer to doing so here makes the game Darker and Edgier?). As a whole, I feel that these points are just generally over-exaggerating how gritty this game actually is.
If anything, this entry should describe how the game attempts to be Darker and Edgier, but falls flat compared to a game like Sonic Adventure 2 which dealt with themes like sacrifice, loss of a loved one, and going mad with vengeance while Sonic Forces had some off-hand mentions of torture and insanity (neither of which amount to anything, and neither were present in the Japanese version), and a war that keeps getting mentioned but we never actually see the effects of other than stuff getting blown up. (Also this is just my opinion but Infinite is so badly written that it's hard to take him seriously.) At the very least, we can talk about the art style, which is definitely less colorful than previous installments.
Edited by supernintendo128

Recently, I modified a couple of entries on Dragon Age – Anders, removing the The Extremist Was Right entry and reformatting the information and moving it to Well-Intentioned Extremist. Before I did this, I took it to the Is This An Example
thread, where I was mostly ignored despite posting several times. Now, I previously did the same thing for the same entry on the main page for TEWR after I got agreement from the same thread that it wasn't an example, so despite lack of replies, I thought I was okay.
Shortly after I did this, Asherinka reverted the entry back and edited it to have more neutral wording (or tried to at least). The topic for the Dragon Age fandom is major Flame Bait and Anders himself has a Broken Base, so I'm trying not to let this devolve into an argument over whether or not he was right.
My big hang up on TEWR vs WIE is that I believe they are mutually exclusive tropes. And, for Anders, I do not believe he meets the requirements for TEWR.
Hello83433: I'm a bit concerned about [this particular TEWR example] in general, because it relies a lot on player perception and it seems to be used as an Audience Reaction, because there's hardly anything in-universe that is justifying the actions taken. The trope itself says the people whom everyone thought were completely right and in-universe it's noted that many, including mages, denounce Anders' actions. The supporting material (i.e. comics and supplementary novels) also have that the character is dead, because some events that occur do not occur in a universe where he lives.
Overall, this seems more like someone trying to convince others that the actions were right, when they moreso fall under Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters (and he's already listed under). Thoughts?
Reply from Afterward: Sorry I haven't said this before, but I think there's enough negative reactions to Anders' actions in-universe that he doesn't qualify (and while the Mage situation in Dragon Age was already pretty bad before Anders blew up the Chantry, there's no real evidence that it got better, just that the conflict became open), although I'm not super familiar with the inner workings of the trope.
Hello83433: Reposting because I think it got lost in the page transition. After cutting Anders' example from The Extremist Was Right, it was added to his character page. The first bullet point text is exactly the same as TEWR, and the second point is diving deep into begging the question and slippery slope territory, but I wanted to bring the full example here again just in case.
[Example In Question]
Reply from nrjxll: Honestly, I think there's a seed of a valid example buried in there, in that Inquisition does pretty clearly show that Anders's broader goal of dragging these festering problems out in the open led to necessary reforms that probably weren't going to happen otherwise. What it doesn't validate is the method he did that by. (Just speaking personally, one of the few points I found myself majorly agreeing with Vivienne - who I rather disliked on the whole - on was that tying the cause of mage independence to a terrorist attack that killed hundreds of people was a huge PR self-own.)
BTW, the definition of The Extremist Was Right is distinctly not helpful here. I don't see anything about other characters in a story needing to say as much to qualify an example the way you originally cited, but the description's not all that long in general.
Hello83433: I was going off of Laconic and the first sentence of the description, although I agree it could be written clearer. The heavy disagreement on his methods is what puts him out of TEWR territory for me. Although, now that I'm looking at it, would it be a better fit for Well-Intentioned Extremist? Anders seems to fit under the first and/or third types (the problem is the means and/or consequences) just based on in-universe reactions to his "solution".
I don't want this OP to be too long, so just to sum up I don't believe the example fits The Extremist Was Right primarily due to in-universe backlash against Anders and his actions. I suppose moving it to YMMV might be an option, but to avoid an edit war I'm asking here to get a consensus one way or the other.
Edited by Hello83433