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bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
2021-04-26 11:03:09

They also aren't copying formatting when copying examples to the draft, resulting in spoiler tags and relevant potholes being removed.

STARCRUSHER99 (Captain)
2021-04-26 11:21:33

Courtesy link to the “my rules” comment

COVID-SR5R Since: Apr, 2021
2021-04-26 11:39:00

I apologize for being difficult, it's just that I find it rather irritating that people think I should explain every little thing about the trope.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-26 11:41:49

You're the sponsor. It's your job. If you launch with a trope that nobody but you understands (and as you might be able to tell from the comments, that's where we're at right now), then it'll become an immediate misuse magnet. If nobody understands it, then you have to help them understand it.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
COVID-SR5R Since: Apr, 2021
2021-04-26 11:47:09

I understand that, but if people took a look at the examples that I set out, maybe they would see what I mean by not just the description alone. Though, I do understand some complaints, like ended and cancelled aren't really all that different, Dramatic Irony has a lot in common with Internal Un-Reveal and that 'not counting examples that are implied that characters already know the secret' may have been too vague to understand. But really, by looking at the examples, people could not get the basic point of the trope.

STARCRUSHER99 (Captain)
2021-04-26 11:49:55

And I understand your frustration, but if very few people understand the trope even with the example list and you're all-but refusing to explain or answer their questions, then how are they supposed to get their answers?

FurAndStone Since: Jan, 2015
2021-04-26 13:42:21

Also, the mindset of "You should be able to tell what the trope is by the examples" is just not a good way to make a trope. The examples are supposed to be secondary to the description. It's the job of the description to explain the tropes, The examples aren't going to be helpful to everybody because not everybody is familiar with all the examples used and they're not really going to know how the trope is used in those works.

Also the issue with my latest post on your draft wasn't so much about not understanding what the trope is and needing it explained, but that the trope you're trying to make isn't exactly tropable, and that the definition needs to be changed slightly so that it could be tropable. And if I'm wrong about that, than fine. I'm not expecting you to change your draft just because of me. I'm merely making suggestions that we can have a discussion about. But you're response was basically that you didn't have to discuss anything, you were going to launch your trope however you want to regardless of what anybody else wanted.

DivineFlame100 Since: Mar, 2014
2021-04-26 13:58:15

Umm... Could we get an IP check on the troper, please? This to me sounds too suspiciously similar to the behavior of bulmabriefs144.

mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2021-04-26 14:31:18

^ I don't quite know if it's the same person, since their editing patterns don't seem similar and possessive behavior is a problem many tropers have with TLP.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-26 18:21:31

And now they're doing it here too. :/

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
Shadow8411 Since: Jul, 2019
2021-04-26 20:22:04

I'm pretty sure that's against TLP guidelines. The draft has an equal number of bombs and hats, and no reason was given for deletion.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-26 20:43:02

It is. From TLP Guidelines:

  • Don't Discard Drafts Without Reason: Sometimes drafts aren't viable and need to be discarded. Fair enough, but don't try to be sneaky about it.
    • If the draft is not long abandoned or objectively unlaunchable (i.e. it breaks site rules), it must have at least five more bombs than hats to be considered discardable.
    • Never discard a draft while a discussion is ongoing. Aside being against the rules, it's incredibly rude.
    • Don't discard drafts for reasons not related to site rules or draft quality. People do tend to notice when, for example, drafts regarding LGBTQ-related topics start disappearing for no discernible reason.
    • If you discard a draft, always include your reason for doing so. If nothing else, it shows that you're acting in good faith and not discarding it for arbitrary or agenda-driven reasons.\

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2021-04-27 04:03:27

Regarding the sockpuppet concerns, the two tropers show some similar geolocation.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Shadow8411 Since: Jul, 2019
2021-04-27 06:39:07

They also nuked another draft they created, and it's even worse this time. When the trope was nuked, it didn't even have five bombs in total, let alone five more bombs than hats (for the record, it had 10 hats and 4 bombs, and was nuked less than a day after it was created, with no reason given).

Edited by Shadow8411
mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2021-04-27 06:41:31

^ And that one only had some very mild criticisms about the description, while the majority of comments were supporting the draft idea. Jay could've been slightly nicer about the lack of effective response, but combined with the other draft, it makes the sponsor look unreceptive to any criticism.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
DivineFlame100 Since: Mar, 2014
2021-04-27 06:42:54

Yeah, this is a definite red flag. Sockpuppet of bulmabriefs144 or not, this troper is violating basic TLP guidelines.

Traveler123 Since: Mar, 2018
2021-04-27 08:53:39

I've noticed what everyone above has been posting about COVID. I tried to send him a friendly note when he braced up War Jay for simply pointing out his proposed trope had definite clarification issues, but got no reply. Something tells me he's one of those "my way or the highway" tropers. I also think he's removed all his proposals from the launch pad.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-27 10:39:51

Last night they did apologize over PM, but at that point I was too tired and frustrated to really respond. I didn't want to lie and accept the apology while knowing they were still breaking guidelines, and I didn't want to start a fight by calling them out, so I just didn't say anything back. I'll also admit my Screw This, I'm Outta Here! reaction might've been a bit much, but the intent was mostly just to make it clear that:

  1. I was dropping out of the discussion, and not sticking around to try and make them listen this time.
  2. I was bombing, and why I was bombing.

Either way, nuking that draft when the worst criticism was "Hey, the description needs some work", is definitely a bit far. They really don't seem to handle criticism well, and either refuse to acknowledge it or overreact.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
FurAndStone Since: Jan, 2015
2021-04-27 11:35:24

^^ He didn't remove all of them. He's still got this one. That one also had some problems in that he tried to launch it prematurely, had it sent back to the launch pad because there was still ongoing discussion and issues with it, and once again tried to launch it with out discussing the issues. So basically the same issues of not wanting to receive criticisms or make changes to his drafts.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
2021-04-28 15:49:12

Should it be nuked then?

FurAndStone Since: Jan, 2015
2021-04-28 17:45:17

No. None of them should've been nuked, I believe. I actually think Punished For No Sympathy was actually a good trope and ready to launch. He just had some issues communicating with people who wanted to know how it was different from Laser-Guided Karma. But that's no reason to nuke it.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-28 17:59:03

Yeah, the issue is that none of the tropes here are nukeworthy. The worst issue is that COVID has trouble communicating and seems to ignore criticisms, but that doesn't mean the drafts had to be discarded.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-29 10:42:20

Bump...still would like a mod to weigh in here.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2021-04-30 15:01:31

Septimus, are you or any other mods able to confidently say whether or not this is a sockpuppet? They still haven't responded to these concerns about TLP as far as I can tell, but they're also making new drafts. The drafts aren't inherently bad, though.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-04-30 15:25:03

In general, the drafts are mostly fine, but their attitude about criticism is not and they're repeatedly breaking the rules. Even if they're not Bulma, I'd like a mod to step in.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Willbyr MOD (Y2K)
2021-04-30 18:28:13

They're suspended from TLP.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
2021-05-01 01:44:57

So, should any of these drafts be remade? I feel Harmless Hell might have some potential.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-05-01 08:43:57

We can just restore the originals. Or let them do it if they get released.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Tremmor19 (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
2021-05-01 15:01:48

(just to be clear, is it not okay to discard your own draft if it doesn't have 5 more bombs than hats? i thought it would be cause the page says the op can discard at any time, i have discarded mine when the comments made me realize the concept was already covered by a combo of closely related tropes)

STARCRUSHER99 (Captain)
2021-05-01 15:14:21

Not for no reason - if you have a reason to bomb that's one thing, like what you mentioned or just the trope is a duplicate, but discarding for no reason besides not being open to criticism is a bit no-no.

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