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If that message was a PM, I would edit it down as I don't think quoting P Ms is allowed.
I would send a rudeness modifier and something saying they edited the YMMV page of their own fic, along with a link to this thread.
Edit: Shadow Wolf 75 probably should get a rudeness modifier as well.
Edited by HMSquaredYes, that message in the folder was my PM to shadowwolf75 detailing how the idea Chiba and Asahina were like this in canon was incorrect. I can get very longwinded. Removing the PM now. EDIT: Also... what's a rudeness modifier?
Edited by RebelFalcon Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.To answer the question, if you look at the page history, under each edit on the right hand side, you will see the line "Is there an issue? Send a Message". Click on "Send a message" and you'll be at the edit notifier page. The drop down menu has a number of categories, of which Rudeness is one. You can add a more personalized reason in the box below, or just click send to send the canned rudeness notifier, which will PM the user who made the edit.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose meAfter going back to the forum to check to see of there were any new posts... I found this:
I've sent messages to both Trickster and shadowwolf with links to the Administrivia page as well as this ATT query.
I'm not sure if anyone has actually told them about that policy, so maybe this will solve it. Either way, I've invited them here, so maybe we can bring this to a halt before more edit wars happen.
Edited by ArctimonCreators are still allowed to remove objective misuse from YMMV pages, like unapproved Complete Monster entries or using Ensemble Dark Horse for a species or group, and they can correct misinformation about the work, but they can't add things, and they can't remove things just because they don't like or agree with them.
Should I restore the entry then now, or should I wait a bit?
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.Understood then.
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.What Wolf said. If I can't touch the YMMV page, and she can't, then screw it. Even if I think this trope is taking shit out of context and not considering the new scenario, considering Zero threw the JLF under the bus before Narita? It apparently isn't my place to say shit. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Edited by Trickster_PriestHere's the thing you need to understand: It doesn't necessarily matter if it's taking things out of context in this case. What matters is if it accurately describes a fan reaction, and it seems like it does. If the fans are misinterpreting the work, then that sucks, but it doesn't nullify the fact that the reaction exists- which is all RTDE is meant to document.
GRANTED, RTDE (and Draco in Leather Pants) have been under scrutiny lately because nobody can agree on how they're defined. So it's a bit confusing here. Still, though, the best thing to do is to bring it up to discussion and see if other people, who don't have a stake in the story, agree that the example is misuse. Then they can delete it for you.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallOk, here's what happened.
A rogue unit of the JLF (Japanese Liberation Front, the biggest resistance group against Britnania which controls Japan now) attacked a major conference at a hotel on Lake Kawaguchi. Said unit was commanded by a Lt. Colonel. The JLF is the remnants of the imperial Japanese army.
Zero went to rescue the hostages, for good PR reasons, a general dislike of stupid terrorism, because his friends, including his sisters, were there, and finally because one of the sister is the full blood sister of the sitting Viceroy, who would have conducted a murderous purge in retaliation for her sister being hurt.
Zero saved the hostages, but he was furious that someone like the Lt. Colonel could be so high in the JLF, especially after he threatened to have his sister gangraped. So he threw the JLF under the bus in his speech afterwards, and forced a meeting with Kyoto, the backers of the JLF. He also secretly sent a letter to Cornelia telling her what happened and to kill the JLF off.
The JLF extended an invitation for a meeting with him, however, the commander of the JLF failed to understand that Zero was pissed at them and not willing to be a subordinate. Zero also said Japan was dead and the JLF had been wasting their time for seven years, among other things. Including that Japan had brought the second pacific war on themselves by provoking Britannia, and that Japan's own racism and xenophobia were to blame for the Lt. Colonel. Chiba and Asahina did not take kindly to these insults, and that's before one gets into the fact that Zero is extremely rude by Japanese standards of behavior, despite his cultured and eloquent speech. Chiba in fact, drew a gun on him during this meeting, only being stopped by Tohdoh.
Later, the commander of the JLF betrayed the Black Knights during the battle of Narita, which Zero used to bury the organization's reputation for good.
Asahina badmouthed the black knights (Zero's organization) for their principles in being open to everyone and not being a purely Japanese organization, something Zero took issue with. Chiba was angry because Zero scourging the JLF meant they had no support and no one was willing to help them.
Zero told her off for coming to him for help to rescue her commander, Colonel Tohdoh, and having the nerve to badmouth him. He also refused to meet with them until they disarmed, which Asahina took as an insult to their honor.
Asahina believed Zero to be a mad man who would destroy what was left of Japan. (A major point that I believe some people have not understood, is that the JLF was a Japanese nationalist organization. And while Zero made the black knights a Japanese organization in the original show? Here, he did not do so, and in fact scourged parts of Japan's culture for failing to change with the times. Including things like the Burakumin, a hereditary underclass reviled in modern day Japan.) Thus, Asahina allied with a traitor in Kyoto and sought the aid of a Chinese invasion force.
Zero defeated the invasion force, executed both the kyoto traitor, and the former defense minister in gruesome fashion, and caught Asahina for his treachery. Asahina was sent on a high risk mission, which got him killed when the super weapon Siegfried arrived.
After Zero almost died there, and the Black Knights fled the country, there was considerable unrest and tension in the ranks. Chiba believed Zero was insane and that Tohdoh should take charge. CC realized what she was up to and pushed Tohdoh into a situation where he would take responsibility for his wayward student, while also revealing that Chiba was in love with him.
And that's the gist of what happened. :D
Questions?
That doesn't change the fact that the situation only got to such a level because Trollouche harbors a grudge against those he felt screwed him over in the canon timeline, and as such needlessly goes out of his way to antagonize them to the point they take such drastic actions.
It also doesn't change the fact that the behavior you write Asahina and Chiba demonstrating goes against their canon characterization. Canon wise, Asahina and Chiba were first and foremost loyal to Todoh, and while they had issues with Zero just coming back after abandoning them and acting blase about it, they were willing to still follow Zero until he crossed the line. For Asahina, it was seeing the data Kinoshita sent him with his dying breath, said data saying Zero for all intents and purposes led a massacre and kept it secret from the rest of the top brass. For Chiba, it was the doctored evidence Schneizel presented, and she was shown as being horrified by what was shown just like the others, even initially disbelieving it until Ohgi stepped in and vouched for Schneizel.
Yet here, despite Todoh pledging loyalty to Zero, Asahina and Chiba both go behind his back despite less heinous actions being taken. Asahina conspires with Yoshino in secret to try and depose Zero in almost a repeat of what happened with Sawasaki, down to being manipulated by the Chinese Federation. And Chiba not only spreads anti-Britannian propaganda amidst their own forces, but tries to convince Todoh to lead a coup d'etat while Zero is in a coma.
Their characterizations do not feel in line with that of canon, and instead feel like they are being needlessly made into antagonists to justify propping up Trollouche and C.C. You said it yourself, Chiba pulled a gun on Zero during their meeting, and all of the Black Knights there immediately moved to gun her down, only being stopped by Todoh.
You also are downplaying certain elements of the story. Asahina was brought before Zero and Todoh and told he had two options: either take part in a deliberate Uriah Gambit that Trollouche made no secret he hoped Asahina would suffer in, or be court martialed and executed. Chiba meanwhile was confronted by C.C. and, after seeing C.C. tear someone's throat out for trying to attack a comatose Trollouche, was understandably terrified of C.C. and pulled a gun on her, even telling Todoh she feared C.C. would kill her, with C.C. attempting to do exactly that, only stopping when Todoh declared he would take responsibility for Chiba's life.
The definition of Ron the Death Eater is:
Even if you do not agree, the fact is that Asahina and Chiba are depicted as worse than their canon actions, in a way that paints them negatively, which falls under the purview of Ron the Death Eater. And since it's a YMMV trope, it can and does apply.
Edited by RebelFalcon Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.There is no forum for this fic, and the entire reason I came to ATT is because Trickster Priest nixed Ron the Death Eater claiming misuse with the only justification being that they are the author of the fic, despite the fact that, as the author of the fic, Trickster Priest isn't allowed to touch YMMV tropes, so now Trickster is trying to make it out to be misuse here after Hmsquard said is didn't sound like misuse. This is still part of the entire reason I brought this to ATT: to avoid an Edit War over Trickster and Shadowwolf removing an applicable trope by claiming misuse with their only justifications being that they are the writers and that I just don't understand the "nuance" of the situation.
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.No, we don't dedicate an entire forum for a single work, and discussing edits to tvtropes on another platform is discouraged based on our rules against drama importation. However, you're always free to make a new forum thread dedicated to the work in the appropriate subforum. ATT generally doesn't have very long threads or posts, but the wiki automatically generates a discussion subpage for every article/subpage. The "appropriate page
" is where we encourage editors debate if an example applies, and we have a dedicated thread
for that question as well.
On the other hand, given the existing problem
of Ron the Death Eater and inverse, I'll encourage this discussion to take place in one of the existing cleanup threads
instead. I'm not locking this query just yet, but I don't want to see more ten-paragraph arguments over the example when better venues are available; further posts should be about the status of the page.

On April 12th, 2021, while reading the forum on Questionable Questing for the fanfic "Codes And Geass: Embracing Your Inner Megalomania", I came across a user under the belief that the author of the fic, Tropers/Trickster_Priest, was applying Ron the Death Eater to the characters of Nagisa Chiba and Shogo Asahina.
- Ron the Death Eater: Like many other fanfics, Chiba and Asahina fall victim to this. Contrasted with canon where, while the two are shown more distrustful of Zero after he abandoned them during the Black Rebellion and appeared unapologetic when he returned, and only betrayed him when given sufficient evidence to suggest he crossed the line, the Geass Order massacre for Asahina and the doctored evidence Schneizel provided for Chiba, here they are depicted as disloyal and belligerent from the outset, not helped by Trollouche going out of his way to antagonize them. For specifics though:
- Asahina is made out to be against Trollouche's leadership from the start, to the point he secretly aids an attempted coup d'etat and alliance with the Chinese Federation, and then subjected to a Uriah Gambit as punishment, said gambit resulting in his death due to Kewell emerging in the Siegfried.
- Chiba regularly badmouths Trollouche, stirred up unrest against the Britannian members of the Black Knights, and attempted to convince Tohdoh to stage another coup while Trollouche was comatose, only failing because Tohdoh had Undying Loyalty to Trollouche and C.C. was listening in, the latter of whom Chiba attacks upon discovering her listening in, only for C.C. to nearly kill as a means of putting the fear of god into her, and only spares her due to Tohdoh promising to kill her himself if she continues her treasonous behavior.
The part about Trollouche going out of his way to antagonize them being something even the main page noted.- Butt-Monkey: Ohgi, Asahina, and Chiba all are on Trollouche's shit list because he remembers who was responsible for the betrayal in canon.
- The Chew Toy: Trollouche goes out of his way to provoke people he doesn't like, particularly Chiba and Asahina of the Four Holy Swords. YMMV as to whether he's justified in blaming them for the events of the original timeline or not.
As Trickster Priest has tried dictating what does and doesn't go on the page beforeAfter adding it, Tropers/shadowwolf75 decided to immediately remove it, their edit reason being:
- Hi, I'm not trickster and you are still wrong; the difference here was Lelouch being more aggressive in calling it out because he remembered they were trouble before, they had NEVER liked him in canon and fucked him over later, and thus it does not fall to the extremes of Ron The Deatheater
After double checking the forum, I found that Tropers/shadowwolf75 had been a staunch defender of Trickster Priest, and likewise did not respond kindly to anirock's accusation, resorting to personal attacking rather than making an actual argument against the idea:- This is a YMMV trope. There are users in the forum who see this to be the case as they call out Trickster Priest for bashing. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you can remove a subjective trope, since you are only a single person. Take it up with trope repair threads if you absolutely must. Otherwise, remove it again, it's officially an Edit War.
And rather than clog up the Edit Reason with my rambling, I sent a message to shadowwolf75 explaining how Chiba and Asahina were not as shadowwolf75 described them. And yes, I did in fact go back to watch the episodes so as to make sure I didn't misremember anything and had my facts straight.While that initially appeared to be the end of it... Trickster Priest edited the page themself using the fact they were the author as justification in blatant defiance of "The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours". They additionally accused me of being anirock and doing this just because they didn't agree with "me".
- I however, am Trickster. And you are misrepresenting the situation and ignoring the nuances. And pulling this because I disagreed with your interpretation in the thread on QQ is especially galling.
Except, as I made clear in my initial edit reason, I was avoiding posting in the forum rather than actually posting there. I am not anirocks, and I only have an account on QQ to actually read the fanfic due to needing an account to access it, my account having the same name as my handle on this site.This has escalated into a full out Edit War, and rather than do something stupid like restore the entry again or argue with Trickster Priest, I decided it prudent to take the matter to ATT, as Trickster Priest is blatantly ignoring Administrivia, and this is not the first time they have done so. And rather than argue as to why the trope doesn't apply, they instead accuse me of misinterpreting things and being a sockpuppet account for a different user with similar objections. So I am requesting ATT to step in to resolve this dispute.
Edited by RebelFalcon