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shadowblack Since: Jun, 2010
2021-03-18 13:47:34

Disclaimer: I have not watched Redo of Healer and don't plan to any time soon, so the following is based solely on the information provided by Nubian Satyress.

It's easy to assume that Keyaru pretending to be traumatized by the experience is a dumb idea when he knows what the consequences will be. But can we be certain what would have happened if he had not done that? Can we be certain that things would have been better and not worse? It's easy to assume it would be better, but do we know for sure?

More importantly, does Keyaru know what would have happened had he not pretended to be traumatized? Is there any in-universe information provided to him that would suggest that not pretending is the better option?

Also, some info about the whole "restarts time" thing would be nice. Can he do that again? If yes, how many times and what are the requirements for it? In other words, could he freely explore the “does not pretend and does not get raped as a result” option first and restart things if he did not like the results? Or is that not an option for him?

NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
2021-03-18 14:30:00

  • But can we be certain what would have happened if he had not done that? Can we be certain that things would have been better and not worse? It's easy to assume it would be better, but do we know for sure?
    • If we had to be certain, then no example of What An Idiot or Fridge Logic would ever apply. Anything can be speculated to be a wise decision if we need the story to explicitly tell us bad decisions are bad.

  • More importantly, does Keyaru know what would have happened had he not pretended to be traumatized? Is there any in-universe information provided to him that would suggest that not pretending is the better option?
    • Same thing above. No, there is no guarantee that a different course of action would have led to a more favorable outcome, but that doesn't change the fact that it's never attempted or even brought up. However, we DO know for a fact that Keyaru is aware that he absorbs the abilities of the people he heals, so he would know that healing the legendary soldier and knights Flare wanted him to heal would give him their abilities without being raped.

  • Also, some info about the whole "restarts time" thing would be nice. Can he do that again?
    • Not yet. Restarting time only gave him the same memories as before. He still had to reacquire drug immunity and all the other abilities he had in the first timeline from scratch.

Edited by NubianSatyress
shadowblack Since: Jun, 2010
2021-03-18 17:04:34

I think it comes down to whether he is supposed to be sympathetic at all in this particular case. Having read what you read and having taken several quick looks at the main and YMMV pages for the title, I'm still not sure. Hopefully people who have actually seen the anime will chime in.

Sirena Since: Jan, 2021
2021-03-18 18:07:08

nobody is arguing whether or not Keyaru should have taken revenge at all
Honestly, this is something one could and maybe should criticize the work for. Unintentionally Unsympathetic fits, with all those shallow characters and weird torture stuff.

The plothole in #4 you brought up is not necessarily YMMV but could be one of the Stupidity Tropes (unless maybe the protagonist is a masochist).

(Disclaimer: I either don't know of the show or I don't want to admit it. Or I took Mind Bleach after about the first episode to forget the abysmal writing. Maybe all those plotholes get resolved at some point of the series.)

NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
2021-03-18 18:39:41

^ Actually the rest of that is mentioned in the Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry.

The only part that was removed was about decision in point #4.

Sirena Since: Jan, 2021
2021-03-18 19:44:00

Courtesy link to the edit in question.

Here is what they removed:

Also, many of his actions seem nonsensical or forced to justify his revenge, such as the fact that he deliberately subjects himself to the same torment again in the second timeline despite having the foreknowledge and ability to avoid it.

This doesn't refer to #4 in a clear sense since "the same torment" can be interpreted wider. So I get where the confusion was coming from. You can rewrite it to mention #4; then I think it's safe to add back.

Though, I actually think the part doesn't fit Unintentionally Unsympathetic as it's not about the protagonist being a jerk but might rather be a case of What An Idiot or some other audience reaction apathy trope.

Also, I think this ultimately belongs on the Discussion pages. Dj0rel misunderstood your point but didn't do anything wrong otherwise.

Twiddler MOD (On A Trope Odyssey)
2021-03-18 20:14:45

Though, I actually think the part doesn't fit Unintentionally Unsympathetic as it's not about the protagonist being a jerk but might rather be a case of What an Idiot! or some other audience reaction apathy trope.

That is my impression as well.

NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
2021-03-19 02:08:57

^^ Their tone in the Discussion page gives me the impression that we've gotten into "No, You!" Mode, whereas it's about "winning" the argument no matter what. In particular, arguing about the semantics of Speculative Troping.

Likewise, I got the feeling that his later posts did a lot of Moving the Goalposts, even after the misunderstanding was cleared up.

Edited by NubianSatyress
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2021-03-20 04:14:39

Folks, you don't need to duplicate the discussion in ATT. Please head over here.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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