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Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

28th Feb, 2021 05:42:07 AM

Demos are concrete and absolutely tropeworthy. You can inform the user who deleted those entries of that, and if they don't provide you a legit reason on why they did that, you can revert their edits.

28th Feb, 2021 07:09:08 AM

^^ No deletions took place. The items were commented out for breaking the rules for pages of upcoming works and speculative troping.

The cleanup thread that handles pages for upcoming works: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15514631230A64268600

In fact we have an edit war between you, Alphatater (who is trying to enforce the will of the cleanup thread), and JC.

Links to individual profiles/edits:

Alphatater - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Alphatater

JC - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=J_C_CH

Longcoat - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=NotSoBadassLongcoat

Edited by Ngamer01
28th Feb, 2021 08:03:06 AM

No deletions took place.
For the record, deletions most certainly took place. One quick look at the page's history shows several tropes were outright deleted by Alphatater: Apocalypse How, Black-and-Grey Morality, Flamethrower Backfire, Guns Akimbo, and more (not going to list all of them). They were added back by NotSoBadassLongcoat, but they were still deleted.

While I agree that NotSoBadassLongcoat should have properly stated the source - namely the demo - for a number of tropes, let's not pretend that the examples were only commented out when they were clearly - and, in my humble opinion, unnecessarily - deleted.

28th Feb, 2021 08:09:39 AM

^ Ah, I see now, but Alphatater did leave edit reasons explaining why items were either removed or commented out.

The policy that allows this is at Creating a Work Page For an Upcoming Work .

28th Feb, 2021 08:40:07 AM

Personally I donít really see a functional difference between commenting out and deleting when it comes to upcoming works. Either way you are taking out an example that flunks the guidelines. Editors who like the work can always just go into the history and add it back with citations.

28th Feb, 2021 08:45:11 AM

^^ NO.

Commenting out is fine. Commented out I can rewrite. But YOU DO NOT FUCKING DELETE TROPES THAT ARE EXPLAINED AND BACKED BY PUBLICLY AVAILABLE SOURCES!

Edited by NotSoBadassLongcoat
28th Feb, 2021 08:47:41 AM

You do if it follows site policy and/or consensus.

Plus the entries are still in the edit history, so it's a bit more work but no different than rewriting a commented out example.

Link to alphatater's specific edit: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.Outriders#edit28662682

And their edit reason:

Do not unhide hidden entries without adding context / citations. Do not speculate about unreleased material such as the game proper. Stick to describing tropes that occur in released material such as the demo. Thank you.

Looking at the edits, it seems lack of citation is the big issue. The entries can possibly be re-added if they're more specific about where and how they occur. There may be some Speculative Troping too, by the look of it, and that is grounds for deletion.

Edited by sgamer82
28th Feb, 2021 09:21:40 AM

Calm down. As ^^ and I pointed out, you can always just go in the edit history to find the deleted info. Personally I prefer to comment stuff out, but they are not committing a grave sin by deleting the entries.

28th Feb, 2021 10:52:49 AM

^x4 Don't yell at someone for deleting the examples. I know it's frustrating to redo it but hey it's not the end of the world. Ya know what I mean?

28th Feb, 2021 11:55:37 AM

Right. It's not like deleted examples are forever wiped from internet history. They're still sitting there in the history.

28th Feb, 2021 12:15:52 PM

This is what I mean before when I said that pages of yet-to-be released products should be locked.

There's one group that sees something in the trailer or the demo and writes an entry about it and there's another group that considers everything "speculative" and immediately deletes it, rinse and repeat.

I believe that both adding or deleting entries in pages for yet-to-be released products should be discussed in the page's discussion subpage.

No offense.

Edited by GoodGamer14
1st Mar, 2021 03:43:49 PM

^ Offense very much taken.

^^^ Listen, I still have PTSD from scouring every last frame of Cyberpunk 2077's promotional videos, articles, livestreams etc. and having a tug-of-war with having to add "in video X", "in interview Y" and nauseam to every trope the moderator commented out. But, commenting out is fine. We're leaving potential (and usually obvious) entries at hand so they can be rewritten and justified.

Deleting, however, is not cricket. Deleting an entry requires opening another tab, searching through the history that may or may not be ridiculously inflated by a six-way edit war thirty-six edits long, copying, rewriting, etcetera. It's rude. Particularly if the product is on its last stretch before release... And after the release there's another edit war because some spiteful asshole has a problem with the game's quality and the entire circus has to be locked down to the sub-sub-subpages.

I'm not just triggered right now, I'm outright ballistic. Lucy Liu versus Antonio Banderas B-movie ballistic.

Edited by NotSoBadassLongcoat
1st Mar, 2021 03:53:16 PM

^ As everyone else here has said, you can always go back and look for the deleted exmaples. Just use control-F (or command-F if you are on Mac) and look for certain keywords, you'll find it. And please, please, calm down. Yelling at people will not get you what you want.

EDIT: Changed the content of my comment. Didn't like my original.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton
1st Mar, 2021 04:21:44 PM

^^ This is a bit off-topic, but I just want to say that I got a good chuckle from "Lucy Liu versus Antonio Banderas B-movie ballistic."

1st Mar, 2021 04:23:10 PM

^^^ People commenting out speculation or uncited information is your Trauma Button? Must be tough. I reiterate what everybody else is saying that you need to calm down. This subject does not warrant this much ire.

Anyway, if you have context and you think the deletions were wrong, why not try talking directly to the people working on the cleanup thread who deleted the entries, explaining that you know the proper context for these entries and why they shouldn't be deleted?

Edited by mightymewtron
1st Mar, 2021 04:27:33 PM

^^^^ If the act of adding tropes is stressing you out this much, I very much recommend stepping away and taking a Wiki break, there will always be people who have different ideas than you, and it really seems like you are unable to handle that.

Not to mention you are giving off serious ownership vibes here, trying to dictate how things are done on this obsession of yours.

2nd Mar, 2021 12:34:51 AM

^^ It's not "uncited information". I quoted one of the official videos that depicted the use of Hub City and Hub Level tropes in the game, those entries were outright deleted. As opposed to shitty descriptions of several other tropes with much less detail that were either commented out or left as-is.

And if anyone even mentioned that in the cleanup thread, we could at least start a discussion there. That did not happen.

2nd Mar, 2021 02:04:52 AM

OK, that's enough.

Not So Badass Longcoat, this isn't cancer medicine and it does not require so much passion.

Whether improper examples for upcoming works should be deleted or commented out isn't yet decided upon as far as I know, but it's certainly a valid argument that commenting out entries makes it easier to repair them.

On the other hand, readding entries after resolving the issue that led to their deletion plainly isn't edit warring. Folks need to be more circumspect when using the "E-W word".

2nd Mar, 2021 03:01:37 AM

^ As for the edit war I mentioned above, what I had in mind was what happened with Cyberpunk 2077 pages. But in that case, we at least had a discussion in the cleanup thread. Here? No communication whatsoever.

2nd Mar, 2021 08:33:20 AM

^Sorry for not responding for a long time but yeah the mod is right.

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