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Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
2021-01-14 12:13:46

Since I made the edit I thought I would comment on this. The thing the trope itself is about the main character having a Double Standard that the narrative fails to address so any Hypocrite examples that don't have in-universe call outs or something would technically fall under that.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-01-14 12:16:47

Moral Dissonance is about heroic characters though. Does the Critic qualify as that?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
2021-01-14 12:20:11

He is listed under Anti-Hero so yeah, I would think so.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-01-14 12:22:21

Even that's questionable. Outside of the anniversary specials, calling in a "hero" in any stretch is a bit weird, then again I stopped watching early in the revival era so maybe things have changed. (In the way that I'm not sure the show has enough narrative to have a "hero" and a "villain", not that I'm not sure the Critic would qualify as "Anti-Heroic" in nature.)

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
2021-01-14 12:26:18

If that was the case, though, then those entries would go back under Hypocrite I believe since its usually intentional when a non-hero says a Double Standard. I may be wrong about that though.

Edited by Ordeaux26
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-01-14 12:28:28

It's not. Hypocrite needs to be called out in universe to apply, or at least made blatantly intentional by the narrative. We can't assume intent.

Either way, I'm not saying Critic doesn't count as a hero, I just want some sort of clarification on if he does and why, since Moral Dissonance sort of seems to require that.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
2021-01-14 12:30:48

Ok, nevermind then. In that case, I guess whether these entries are valid under this rests on if the Critic is a hero or at least an Anti-Hero which I don't really know enough to say so let's wait for Mighty's response.

mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2021-01-14 12:42:52

I'd say he's an Anti-Hero, because for the most part, he is meant to be seen in the right for criticizing these movies, even if we understand that he's not really superior to many of these directors and his job is quite pathetic. But I don't know if all of the entries you listed really qualify. Some of these actions were Black Comedy jokes made with the understanding that he's an asshole. I'm also unsure if these actions are comparable as he's criticizing actions in a story, not actions in his personal reality. And a few of these entries read more as criticisms of the show than criticisms of the character. See:

  • In The Odd Life of Timothy Green and the Twilight editorial, he makes rants about learning from your mistakes and growing up. The irony that this comes after To Boldly Flee but he's back to screaming and having psychotic breaks like he did years ago has not been lost on people.

Some of these criticisms also seem like misrepresentations of his positions. While he's reacted negatively to some child abuse jokes, he's never been consistent on that front, and joked at the expense of children so much that one episode had Mara Wilson give him karma for doing it. He also doesn't always "demand pure logic in the silliest of cartoons" - and if he does, it's usually depicted as sarcastic. Not to mention I don't see how it's dissonant that he dislikes Plot Holes in Hollywood films, but is driven by emotion more than logic...in his web video with different standards and a loose plot.

I might be biased because some of these entries look like they were added under Hypocrite back when certain tropers were letting their Single Issue Wonks get the best of them and used any excuse they could to shove negativity onto the page. Many of these entries looked like shoehorned negative entries that I had to cut elsewhere.

Edited by mightymewtron I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019
2021-01-14 12:52:53

I thought they were cut because they weren't addressed In-Universe. Though for the ones that a misrepresentation they can probably be deleted.

mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2021-01-14 13:00:37

I'm actually unsure if Moral Dissonance is broad enough to cover this. I'd take this to the NC cleanup thread but I already posted questions there today and I'm waiting on responses for that.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
2021-01-15 19:28:31

I asked how Moral Dissonance, Hypocrite, and Moral Myopia are supposed to be distinct but n ver got a clear answer.

My impression is:

  • Myopia is for those intended to be unsympathetic/in the wrong for such.
  • Dissonance is unintentional examples from those intended to be sympathetic/in the right.
  • Hypocrite is the super trope used when the others don’t fit. (Sympathetic characters meant to be wrong for such, morally grey examples.)

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