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6th Jan, 2021 12:58:19 PM

Interesting question. If I understand correctly (I haven't read it, I've just followed the discussion here and in other forums), its a derivative work in the sense that it builds on the scenes in the pictures, but unlike a typical fanfic it doesn't reuse the characters or setting, but rather re-imagines them from the pictures.

And, like fanfic, it's said to infringe copyright by using the pictures as illustrations.

I don't think there's a good name for this kind of work. It would certainly fit under Literature. Is there really a good reason to put it under Fanfic?

EDITED: I'm leaning towards Literature since the text is an original work, but won't protest if it stays under Fanfic.

Edited by GnomeTitan
6th Jan, 2021 02:53:32 PM

Whatever may be said about fanfic in general, Sister Floriana copies and rehosts the images without permission, which is a much more direct violation of copyright.

Regardless of where the page ends up, shouldn't we pull the image?

6th Jan, 2021 04:12:46 PM

It would certainly fit under Literature.
That's literally all the Fanfic namespace is; a Literature work that violates copyright.

6th Jan, 2021 07:10:59 PM

^ It's a bit more complex than that.

This work outright contains its supposed source material, which makes it plagiarism.

Edited by bwburke94
6th Jan, 2021 10:49:58 PM

^The author doesnít claim to have drawn the pictures himself, does he? If he doesnít, then its not plagiarism but something else (illegal distribution of the pics, perhaps?) Donít get me wrong, thatís a bad thing to do. I think it pales in comparison with the pics being associated with the history-revisionism of the story, though.

But, on the other hand, fanfic and plagiarism are not mutually exclusive, of course. You could have a traditional fanfic that plagiarizes the original work (e.g. a Star Trek fic that copies the dialogue of a TOS episode) and that wouldnít stop it from being fanfic, as long as there is original content as well. So the question remains.

Edited by GnomeTitan
6th Jan, 2021 11:00:02 PM

I think the issue is whether this counts as fanfiction of the drawings or original fiction that uses stolen drawings which happen to be its inspiration.

For context, judging by our page for it and my (admittedly sparse) research the art and the characters in them are nameless and interchangeable and have no plot, setting, or anything - they're just random pictures of cute nuns in silly situations drawn by some Japanese artist. This story makes up the plot, setting, and characters whole cloth; while some chapters' events are loosely based on situations depicted in the art there's no real story that it's drawing from.

It's kind of skirting the line between fanfic and original fiction, IMO. It insists that its the former and is a "fan-created fiction" based on the art, but can we really call an almost entirely original story based on a series of paintings a fanfiction? Or is it more a work of fiction inspired by (and plagiarizing, due to hosting the art illegally) the works of a painter?

Edited by Dirtyblue929
7th Jan, 2021 01:25:46 AM

In that case, it sounds like it would belong in Literature rather than Fanfic.

But plagiarism is an extremely serious matter, so let's be careful about how we use the term. The other wiki defines it as "Plagiarism is the representation of another author's language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions as one's own original work."

In this case, I don't think the author is representing the images as his own work, so he's not plagiarizing them. Using the images as illustrations to his text without permission is still not allowed, but it's not plagiarism. He's not plagiarizing the characters, either, since the characters in the images have no names or backstory.

Come to think of it, the reason why the author insists that his text is a fanfic and not original fiction may very well be to emphasize that he's not claiming that he drew the pictures himself.

Edited by GnomeTitan
7th Jan, 2021 01:41:52 AM

Using the images as illustrations to his text without permission is still not allowed,
Right, that's copyright infringement, "In U.S. law, those rights include reproduction, the preparation of derivative works, [...], and public performance or display." — The artist did not agree to them hosting digital copies of the art on a new site as part of a derivative work for public access.

7th Jan, 2021 10:09:56 AM

And therefore we should remove the picture from our page as well.

7th Jan, 2021 10:51:28 AM

^ That's an Image Pickin' issue.

7th Jan, 2021 11:43:45 AM

^ Even if it's a potential copyright violation issue? The author of the "fanfic" took the images from an artist's twitter account (where the artist displays them as previews for comissionable work) and TVT (the now banned troper) took the images from the "fanfic". I'm not entirely sure TVT is in the clear on this.

7th Jan, 2021 11:45:25 AM

Yes, IP deals with Copyright Violations all the time. It's literally a thread category. I'm not saying we should host it, just that removing it is a job for IP.

7th Jan, 2021 12:01:55 PM

^^Just post about it on Image Pickin'. There are no complicated processes about it like in TRS; it's just that it's the right forum to discuss issues with page images.

7th Jan, 2021 04:39:23 PM

^^"Copyright Violation" should be an Image Pickin' thread reason, but it currently isn't. But yes, this issue should be taken to Image Pickin' (but wait a while before making a thread, since IP is severely backlogged).

Edited by rjd1922
7th Jan, 2021 04:51:08 PM

Isn't it? Oh, yeah, we always use NSWF/Image Macro for those threads.

8th Jan, 2021 02:20:38 AM

AFAIK "violates copyright" isn't universally agreed upon to be a defining criterium of fanfics (besides, a lot of fanworks including many fan art would fall under fair use). So I would not use copyright law to define the inclusion criteria for the namespace.

This kind of ambiguity is also half the reason why I don't like the Fanfic/ namespace. I'd use the Literature/ namespace if the author doesn't refer to his work as a fanfic.

8th Jan, 2021 04:25:27 AM

The situation is slightly odd, for the author does refer to their work as a fanfic.

Basically there is an artist in Japan who drew a series of pictures of anime style nuns, the author based his work on these pictures and called it a fanfic of the images. As far as I can tell, the original artist has no knowledge or connection to this fanfic.

BUT, the author (the now banned troper) did take several images from the artist's twitter page and used them as illustrations. They also started adding those same images to other tropes unrelated works. Considering the artist those same images offered for sale in bound volumes, I'm not entirely sure on the copyright status of the images.

8th Jan, 2021 06:09:40 AM

I mean, we don't know for certain that the troper was the author and not just their same brand of crazy, but otherwise spot on.


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