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Trope Related Question:

Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

Berrenta MOD (Ten years in the joint)
2020-12-07 21:27:48

Suspending; mod reverted.

Edited by Berrenta
PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
2020-12-07 22:17:50

So, what should we do about the page then?

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
2020-12-08 00:56:44

Nothing? The deleted entries were clearly criticizing the patronizing, implicitly racist attitude present in the works, and reading them as implying support for segregation is nonsensical.

GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2020-12-08 01:51:12

The writing in the trope description could be improved. It's rambling and I feel that it could be written in a clearer, more concise manner. In particular the section about the origins of the trope, which is a wall of text with run-on sentences.

The trope description also isn't clear about the distinction between the trope - which seems to be a plot trope about personal relations - and the broader, real-life imperialist concept which the Kipling quote is about.

I don't have the time to do a wick check right now, but there might be some risk of misuse if the trope definition is much narrower than the common usage of the term (which is about the relations between races in collective, not just about relations between individuals).

But none of this is relevant to the OP, of course. The trope may be used in works in a racist way, but of course that doesn't mean that we're condoning racism by documenting that usage.

Edited by GnomeTitan
TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
2020-12-08 10:34:11

^ I think the current name is being misused. What the trope seems to be documenting is what's more commonly called the "white savior narrative", which does apply to stories about individuals (because they reflect implicit worldviews), while White Man's Burden is more often used specifically in connection with imperialism.

miraculous (Apprentice)
2020-12-08 10:55:21

Maybe take it to trs and split it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2020-12-08 11:13:04

To take the it to TRS we'd need to prove misuse with a wick check. If it turns out that a lot of the examples are about imperialism rather than a white person's personal relation to a POC, TRS can either rename it, split it or change the trope definition, but we need to do a wick check first for that even to be considered.

TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
2020-12-08 13:07:31

^ I meant that the phrase "White Man's Burden" refers to imperialism outside of this site, not that it's being misused relative to the current definition here.

GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2020-12-08 14:06:46

Yes, I agree. This is not the only trope that has a misleading name like that, and unless it’s shown to cause problems they usually get to keep their names. That's why I mentioned gathering evidence of misuse: unless the misused name leads to misuse of the trope, it's not ground for renaming the trope.

Edited by GnomeTitan
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