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18th Nov, 2020 06:17:55 PM

Tentative yikes. I'll PM him to this thread to explain himself.

18th Nov, 2020 06:26:08 PM

Wait, are these YMMV examples about real people, rather than fictional characters? That's not allowed.

See: What Goes Where on the Wiki under "Creator." We don't trope real people, ever.

I'm not sure what to do about this, but I've removed anything that looked like an inappropriate example from the other pages. If any of those tropes were actually about a person's stage persona rather than themselves, feel free to restore them.

Edited by Tarlonniel
18th Nov, 2020 06:47:06 PM

Role-Ending Misdemeanor is Trivia. You are allowed to (respectfully) discuss meta issues under Trivia. That's what the Trivia tab is for. I'm not sure if Creator/ pages are allowed Trivia entries or if we put Trivia on the Creator/ page itself, but we are allowed to discuss Role-Ending Misdemeanor for real people because it's entirely about real people.

Overshadowed by Controversy in these cases is describing an audience reaction to the creator's music. Music/ pages are allowed to have YMMV pages as they are troping audience reactions to the music. In this case, the reaction is "the music is overshadowed by the creator's behavior."

Edited by mightymewtron
18th Nov, 2020 06:48:54 PM

I'm not sure if Creator/ pages are allowed Trivia entries or if we put Trivia on the Creator/ page itself

Creator Page Guidelines says the latter.

18th Nov, 2020 06:51:16 PM

Then should we add the Role-Ending Misdemeanor example under Creator.Funhaus, and move Colbert Bump there too?

Edited by mightymewtron
18th Nov, 2020 06:52:48 PM

Yep. I've just sent Trivia.Funhaus to the cut list.

18th Nov, 2020 06:55:52 PM

I'll bow to consensus on troping real people when it affects the work in question, but it still seems like we've got conflicting guidelines here. Feel free to restore anything you think I've improperly removed.

Edited by Tarlonniel
18th Nov, 2020 06:57:29 PM

Adding Trivia isn't "troping real people," if that's what you mean, because Trivia is Not a Trope. But this is besides the main point.

18th Nov, 2020 07:21:17 PM

Regarding the Funhaus example, the grooming accusations were actually directed at a different Rooster Teeth employee (Ryan Haywood, of Achievement Hunter). Kovic was let go for different reasons.

Edited by Primis
18th Nov, 2020 07:50:30 PM

I agree with removing YMMV example, it's not a real life example page. Except in fact ROCEJ is overused if you know what I mean. Also it that okay to re-added Role Ending Misdemanor because it's a Trivia examples (expect for Funhaus)? Edit: I mean about real people

Edited by Bubblepig
18th Nov, 2020 07:57:30 PM

^^ Worth noting that they edited the section about Kovic further, changing "nudes" to "inappropriate pictures." Though I guess that could simply be a matter of sounding professional.

^ Again, the YMMV pages do not need to be removed as they're referring to the music being overshadowed. They are Music/ subpages which are a bit different from Creator/ subpages.

Edited by mightymewtron
18th Nov, 2020 10:07:58 PM

^For me, The troper changing the words in form of censorship is kinda of Bowdlerise. Also I wasn't referring to music YMMV I mean ymmv examples about real people themselves. Btw the triva page of Funhaus got cut already.

19th Jan, 2021 09:23:15 PM

Bumping because I found more evidence that this troper has an agenda.

  • They seem to be responsible for downplaying and even removing anything related to Ryan Harwood's abuse allegations, as described in this thread.
  • They've deleted a couple of Trump examples from trope pages, and while it may be justified to cut political real-life examples, I don't know if this was discussed elsewhere and there are other real life examples they didn't cut. And this one had no edit reason at all.
  • They deleted a neutral description of sexual abuse allegations from Creator.Brett Ratner, claiming "No backup evidence." Note that the page only describes these as allegations and explains that this is why he lost his ties to Warner Brothers. And if he's claiming there's no evidence that he lost his deal with WB, that's not true either.
  • They added this questionable edit that suggests Twitter's stocks falling after kicking white supremacists off its platform is somehow karma.
  • They added "this won't be discussed here" Word Cruft to Creator.Max Landis surrounding his abuse allegations.
  • Deleting article links related to sexual abuse allegations, and removing context on what the allegations actually entailed.

Edited by mightymewtron
19th Jan, 2021 09:27:41 PM

I've restored the description on the Creator.Brett Ratner page.

19th Jan, 2021 09:35:28 PM

I know it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but have we P Md the troper in question? Or at least reported these edits as problematic?

19th Jan, 2021 09:37:57 PM

Well, I'm reporting them right here...not sure which notifier to send them. Maybe deleting YMMV for the Haywood ones but those might have been justified deletions.

19th Jan, 2021 09:38:49 PM

Do the Heartwarming for the Haywood one. It's the most unjustified of their edits

20th Jan, 2021 03:43:46 AM

I'll ask the rest of the staff on this one. On the one hand it's clearly an agenda and it could be an apologist. On the other hand, these controversies have little or nothing to do with the stated purpose of TV Tropes and ... being controversies they could be deletable on ROCEJ grounds. In that case it could be someone overzealously deleting things in good faith.

20th Jan, 2021 05:34:51 AM

Their edit remarking about Trump's suspension leading to Twitter losing stocks kinda gives the impression that these weren't good faith.

20th Jan, 2021 08:35:33 AM

^ Ditto, and I was the one that brought that up in the ROCEJ cleanup. I suspect this troper has an agenda.

20th Jan, 2021 09:15:53 AM

For me the edit reason on their Brett Ratner edit makes it clear this isn't so much about a genuine care for ROCEJ as much as not wanting to acknowledge abuse scandals, even when they're cited briefly and objectively as an explanation for a creator's inactivity.

20th Jan, 2021 09:21:28 AM

Okay they just replied to a PM about the Haywood stuff saying they delete things for being contentious or inaccurate but I'm still suspect because they deleted brief objective mentions of allegations that affected people's careers, which shouldn't be contentious.

20th Jan, 2021 09:49:58 AM

Again, if they're so worried about "contentious" content, then why add that part regarding Trump and Twitter?

I'm definitely not convinced.

21st Jan, 2021 02:06:48 AM

Hmm... What's the best possible solution for it?

Edited by gjjones
21st Jan, 2021 02:13:41 AM

I could send another PM, maybe bring them here? I get nervous with confrontation but I'm willing to hear them out.

21st Jan, 2021 02:29:42 AM

I've suspended them. The pattern looks like it might be that of a political wonk. I would not automatically readd the stuff they removed, though.

21st Jan, 2021 02:35:08 AM

In this case, should we take some of the stuff they removed to the "Is this an example?" thread?

21st Jan, 2021 03:07:54 AM

^ It should probably go to the ROCEJ thread instead.

21st Jan, 2021 07:22:35 AM

The fact that YMMV.lostprophets is comically sanitized is really weird since literally the only thing most people know is the scandal. Removing Overshadowed By The Controversy in particular seems nonsensical.

21st Jan, 2021 08:24:01 AM

^ Yeah, the Overshadowed by Controversy and the deleted Harsher in Hindsight example look okay to me. Also, I think that the band's main page should mention what the "serious and disturbing criminal charges brought against Watkins" are.

1st Mar, 2021 07:00:39 PM

^ Alright Zux, I'm putting my foot down. Not only have I added the words "involving child molestation and pornography" to the criminal charges part of the description, I have decided to expand the Harsher in Hindsight example so that it clarifies that it is harder to listen to "jolly good felon" because Watkins is, if you will excuse my borrowed British, a nonce.

I am also going to re-add the Overshadowed by Controversy example, and nobody is gonna stop me.

2nd Mar, 2021 02:08:30 AM

Closing because it's going offtopic.

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