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Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2020-09-07 05:36:56

I'm not reading it that way. But I'm not sure how I feel about being trans being classed as cross-dressing in the first place...

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bwburke94 (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
2020-09-07 05:58:22

This is a general example (strike one), which equates trans people to crossdressers (strike two) and states that they're still their birth sex even after physically and legally transitioning (strike three).

And this edit was made in April 2018.

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rjd1922 Since: May, 2013
2020-09-07 06:10:27

Is it really a general example, though? I feel like people just use "general example" to get rid of examples they don't like. There's no reason real life examples have to be exactly about one person; they can describe a real-life phenomenon. That said, I don't think this fits the trope, though I don't believe the troper who added it was intentionally transphobic.

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AegisP Since: Oct, 2014
2020-09-07 06:13:06

"A Real Life Phenomenon" We dont trope real life.

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rjd1922 Since: May, 2013
2020-09-07 06:19:39

^Yes we do, in real life sections, as long as the trope isn't No Real Life Examples, Please!.

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Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2020-09-07 06:29:55

It doesn't look like a general example to me, either.

A general example is "in genre X, there is a tendency to..." which could apply to any number of specific examples from works. This is a tight description of a Real Life occurrence (or wants to be).

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8BrickMario Since: May, 2013
2020-09-07 07:02:01

It doesn't sound like they're saying transitioning is crossdressing, but rather, that trans people acting as the gender they were assigned at birth is. Which makes sense. "Birth gender" could be changed to "the gender they were assigned at birth" to be more correct, but I think the entry pretty correctly describes the crossdressing as "pretending to be their assigned gender" and not "living out their real gender identity".

Edited by 8BrickMario
CyokieRevott Since: Jun, 2017
2020-09-07 07:04:32

I almost feel as though we might need to ask the troper what they meant. I can see why this entry might be problematic, but I didn't read it the way OP did. To me, this entry looks like it may be totally genuine, but slightly unclear in its writing with Unfortunate Implications about trans people equaling crossdressers, which we know isn't true.

Then again, if we have to ask the troper what they meant to keep the example, maybe we shouldn't have that example in the first place. I'm not sure.

TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
2020-09-07 07:56:34

The problem is with it being on the page for Recursive Crossdressing, which is about characters being "in disguise as their real gender", implying that trans people are "really" the gender they were assigned at birth. so the issue is less the wording of the example and more it being on this page.

Edited by TheMountainKing
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2020-09-07 08:03:50

^That's definitely a problem.

As for the wording, I think whoever wrote the entry didn't mean to say anything about a trans person't birth gender being their "real" gender. But their relatives may believe that, and force the person to dress like their birth gender. The trans person (but not their relatives) would then consider this crossdressing, since they're dressing as the opposite gender.

But this is not Recursive Crossdressing either from the trans person's perspective or from that of their relatives.

Edited by GnomeTitan
CyokieRevott Since: Jun, 2017
2020-09-07 08:13:58

^ Right, sorry, this is essentially what I meant. I wasn't saying that the troper has grammar issues or anything, but rather that I suspect they may have worded their example in a way that accidentally implies a trans person's birth gender is their "real gender." (Case in point, the line claiming they have to "crossdress.") I'm not sure that's the message they were even intending to convey.

At least, I hope not. The issue stands that it's not crossdressing, and the example is on Recursive Crossdressing.

Edited by CyokieRevott
Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2020-09-07 08:47:07

I suppose we could fix this by making the example about closeted people using drag, crossplay, video game avatars, and other similar activities involving (assumed) crossdressing as outlets to present as their actual gender.

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rjd1922 Since: May, 2013
2020-09-07 09:26:53

^That would fit the trope better.

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mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2020-09-07 10:54:49

I know there are drag queens who are trans women and drag kings who are trans men. Would that fit the trope? I'm not entirely familiar with how drag plays out in those scenarios, though.

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Nazetrime Since: Jan, 2012
2020-09-07 13:08:46

A wick someone working on an alternate entry might have use of: Cross Player.

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2020-09-08 02:18:01

Personal opinion only: I think that such an example isn't general and it doesn't violate Real Life troping rules, but it's perhaps better at home at Crossdresser. Recursive Crossdressing is somewhat unclearly defined and I see why listing such an example there could create Unfortunate Implications.

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Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2020-09-08 02:59:47

Would I be OK adding the example I mentioned to Recursive Crossdressing? Or does everything need some debate.

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rjd1922 Since: May, 2013
2020-09-08 11:44:23

^I think that's fine to add.

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