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Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2020-07-26 18:40:55

I agree this is a problem, but can you try to focus specifically on the changes instead of posting the whole description twice- or maybe put it in folders? It's just really long and exhausting to even look at this post.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
2020-07-26 18:47:56

The problem is the editor injecting ideology without consensus.

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
IukaSylvie Since: Oct, 2017
BlackMage43 Since: Jun, 2014
2020-07-26 19:03:08

For people having trouble parsing the differences, here's the edit history of the posts. It's still messy, but I found it easier:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.YamatoNadeshiko#edit26612646

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Analysis.AmericansHateTingle#edit26612433

I don't know enough about these tropes to judge, but just the fact they added "(whatever that means)" to some sentences they didn't agree with sets off alarm bells.

Adept MOD (Holding A Herring)
2020-07-26 19:08:23

From what I get, the edits are complaining that Yamato Nadeshiko is a sexist (or bad writing) trope and that Japan and East Asian countries backwards for still enforcing this kind of rigid gender roles/stereotypes.

iamconstantine Since: Aug, 2014
2020-07-26 19:16:04

Just want to add that I sent mercutiyo a rudeness notifier in June for their edit reason on this page, where they call another Troper an idiot.

Edited by iamconstantine
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
2020-07-26 19:43:25

I know this isn't the point, but "more unpopular" is a poor choice phrasing, since "less popular" would work much better.

MacronNotes (Captain)
2020-07-26 19:49:45

Maybe I am just having deja vu but this troper sounds very similar to vvv2024 who was suspended for doing something similar and refusing to answer PM's to bring them in for discussion. They also picked up editing a few days after vvv was banned on the 14th on March. Of course could just be a coincidence buut

Edited by MacronNotes Macron's notes
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2020-07-26 19:51:59

^ ...Huh. Good catch.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Excessive-Menace (Fifth Year at Tropey's)
2020-07-26 19:53:57

Maybe it's a sockpuppet, or just a coincidence. It might be good to check anyways.

SING TO ME, LEND ME THE SONG OF BLASPHEMY
Dirtyblue929 Since: Dec, 2012
2020-07-26 22:26:47

Yeah seems worth a check, that user had an almost identical anti-Japan, pro-feminism agenda.

Dirtyblue929 Since: Dec, 2012
2020-07-26 22:26:54

EDIT: damn phone, made me double post

Edited by Dirtyblue929
AegisP Since: Oct, 2014
2020-07-26 22:45:07

Also I think Draco in Leather Pants DOES require the character in question be a villain.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Dirtyblue929 Since: Dec, 2012
2020-07-26 23:33:25

So they’re rude, racist, and wrong. Good to know.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2020-07-26 23:44:38

^ It's the trifecta!

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
2020-07-27 00:15:04

To be honest, I think Dirtyblue is being a bit too eager to sling dirt. I'm not detecting racism in the edits. They are correct that Japan is a deeply patriarchal country and that the standard of Yamato Nadeshiko is deeply rooted in that history.

Further, I've always been VERY skeptical about that article's attempts to repeatedly claim "To western audiences, this may seem sexist, but..." It comes across as trying to sneak in Culture Justifies Everything.

Even in Japan, the culture of Yamato Nadeshiko has come under scrutiny by womens-rights groups, so claims that it's just an innocuous cultural thing isn't the entire picture, either.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just saw that they might be a sock puppet and that there was apparently a pro-Korea, anti-Japan vendetta or something. So maybe that is a factor.

Edited by NubianSatyress
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2020-07-27 00:22:50

It's not wrong to point out these things, but they clearly have an agenda and an Anti-Japanese bias.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
2020-07-27 00:27:45

No doubt. But I honestly think some of the edits were for the better. As I mentioned, the opening in my opinion works better without the Values Dissonance sinkhole, since the stereotype is even questioned by some progressive groups in native Japan. That being said, calling it something from a "bygone era" is flat out incorrect. It'd be like calling a housewife something from a bygone era, when it's clearly still around and preferred by some women. Old-fashioned? Yes. Bygone? No.

Since we can't let this turn into a TRS thread, I'll leave my points at that and note that my positions on the edit are irrelevant to whether or not the troper should be punished.

Edited by NubianSatyress
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2020-07-27 00:31:09

As for the actual valid stuff, we can probably table that for a discussion page or something. It's worth discussing.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2020-07-27 01:55:48

mercutiyo2003 is vvv2024 ban evading and both have been escorted from the premises by security.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Acebrock Since: Dec, 2009
2020-07-27 04:56:04

Brought up the description issue in the trope description improvement drive thread (long-term projects)

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