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22nd May, 2020 12:08:22 PM

Good reversion. What is their handle referencing? Also, if most of their edits seem benevolent, you shouldn't call them a troll; please edit your post to say "transphobic editor" or something.

Edited by rjd1922
22nd May, 2020 12:13:46 PM

Good point, I need more sleep.

I think that handle's a reference to the infamous name Elon Musk and Grimes have given their child.

22nd May, 2020 12:16:10 PM

Edit history doesn't seem to be otherwise offensive, although they created a page for an anime film under the "Film" namespace instead of "Anime".

But that edit they made is transphobic as all hell. Good call deleting it.

22nd May, 2020 12:28:04 PM

We should keep an eye on them, but sometimes people just make a well-meaning edit that turns out to be horrible out of ignorance or personal bias less than anything outright malicious. Their username might be a reference but it could also just be a random collection of numbers and letters, so who can say? We just need to watch out for more suspicious activity before we act.

22nd May, 2020 12:57:19 PM

For those curious, the baby's name is "X A-12" ("ecks ash ay twelve" or "ecks A.I. ay twelve") and apparently was born May 4. A 5 E 10 started editing May 7.

I fail to see how that is related to transphobia, though.

22nd May, 2020 01:11:01 PM

Have any notifiers been sent to the troper to point them here or at least make them aware of how their edits were seen?

22nd May, 2020 01:16:08 PM

I'll PM them.

EDIT: Done. I've included a link back to this thread.

^^ Musk's "fanbase" (bit of an interesting question what to call it, since he's not a content creator) is known for leaning into...certain internet subcultures. It looks like I misread the name, though (as I said, I need more sleep).

Edited by Bisected8
23rd May, 2020 01:15:12 AM

Mmm. Newish account, some grammar and formatting problems and also grammar fixes then this edit. I've put a new account restriction on them for now and will ask my colleagues.

23rd May, 2020 08:52:19 PM

Even if my name WAS a reference to Elon Musk's baby name, I'm not sure what you're insinuating that would say about me. But it isn't; I've been using this name online before that baby was born. It's just my name, just with the letters that are also Roman numerals replaced with the numbers they represent (except I just noticed I fucked up and used the wrong number again, so it looks like my name is "Avex" instead of "Alex." I wonder if I can get that changed.)

Anyway, I made that edit so that the article would have a more neutral point of view. The way the article was previously worded (and the way it is now worded once again) implies that "trans men" are men, presenting it as a matter of fact and as though it isn't a multi-faceted issue. But because it IS a multi-faceted issue, and there's no general consensus that everyone can agree on, I changed the wording in the article to more accurately reflect that, adding the "some argue that..." stipulation, in reference to a view evidently held by whoever wrote that line into the article in the first place, the person who reverted it, and seemingly everyone else in this thread. I didn't say anything that wasn't true. "Trans men" are biological women who identify as men; there's no debating that. Removing that fact from the article actually makes it LESS accurate, as it now unequivocally states a hotly-debated issue as fact.

I joined TV Tropes because it interested me, but if it's just another echo chamber full of people with Steven Universe profile pictures who throw out leftist buzzwords like "transphobic" at other editors, then it just might not be the community for me.

23rd May, 2020 09:03:29 PM

Here's the thing; while there's times and places to discuss these topics, the description of a trope ain't one of them. TV Tropes isn't a liberal echo-chamber like you seem to think; debate on these matters is completely fine if it's done in good-faith and the arguments aren't too extreme or bizarre.

However, changing a trope's description for a reason like this doesn't fly; it's not where these battles get fought and because TVT has such a wide range of readers with different values and situations and identities, we want to be all-inclusive as far as the content itself is concerned. It's not the right place to go changing things to make them more "neutral", because as you yourself said it's a multi-faceted issue and people are going to disagree with your change.

Presenting it as the more "correct" thing to say, in this case, is missing the point- we're not here to engage in these sort of debates on the articles and we're not here to delve into complex issues of language and identity and politics- we're here to talk about things that happen in fiction and entertain/inform a wide audience, many of whom would feel erased or misrepresented if we go around playing the neutrality game here; it's simply not the place to go and have these arguments.

Basically, see Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement, Righting Great Wrongs, and Ban on Politics.

23rd May, 2020 09:03:55 PM

OK then. I think there will be a conversation elsewhere about this response.

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