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Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

7th Apr, 2020 10:00:28 PM

Feel free to make a sandbox if you think you can do it well—but be aware it's unlikely to succeed.

Jones is an extremely controversial figure, and having a page on him probably won't improve the wiki.

7th Apr, 2020 10:10:27 PM

Is Jones' content considered creative enough to warrant a page? Because otherwise... it's just making a page to make a page, a very controversial page.

Edited by WarJay77
7th Apr, 2020 11:18:01 PM

Who is Jesee Ventura what did he do?

7th Apr, 2020 11:29:44 PM

Not to invoke Godwin's Law, but Adolf Hitler and Rodrigo Duterte are also considered highly controversial and are arguably far worse than Alex Jones in that regard, hence my concern about potential double standards. If such a page for Jones would be created, it should be short, sweet and direct to the point to avoid any unnecessary arguments.

Heck, we do have a page for The Holocaust yet Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment applies as it is a hot-button topic to this day.

@AegisP - See Jesse Ventura

Edited by klausbaudelaire
7th Apr, 2020 11:30:41 PM

I already tried that but I want a TLDR version.

7th Apr, 2020 11:37:06 PM

As I elaborated earlier, the best way to approach Jones would be a brief summary of his career as a radio commentator and conspiracy theorist as well as the legal issues he faced. Duterte's article is open for people to edit albeit with RCE in place, but with Jones I don't mind locking it up a la Hitler if he really is that of an arse with us tropers.

8th Apr, 2020 02:13:48 AM

Yeah, saw that one. Still I feel it's double-standards for this site to have articles on even worse people yet we couldn't have one for a milder yet similarly vile person.

8th Apr, 2020 03:00:57 AM

...wait, why do we have a Useful Notes page on Rodrigo Duterte in the first place? This site's primarily about fiction. Hitler, at least, is a fairly common Historical Domain Character.

8th Apr, 2020 05:22:06 AM

I would guess because a head of state who gets referred to in fictional works and inspires works regarding them is different from an asshole who got kicked off multiple media platforms for his conspiracy theories and harmful words. Although Duterte is similarly still alive causing harm like Jones, he's going to be in history textbooks someday, whereas Jones can mostly disappear into the ether. He'd probably like to be a footnote to the incidents he spews theories about and the biographies of people he has harmed... But entries that would link to him could probably just link to tropes about his personality type or roles in media, not necessitating a page about him to really explain him.

8th Apr, 2020 05:48:45 AM

Jones's notoriety did serve as inspiration for a number of fictional characters and works though, if that is what you're looking for. The character of John Smith and the in-universe talk show Conspire in the GTA IV expansions is a thinly-veiled parody of Jones and his conspiracist empire. There ought to be a few others which satirise the host though considering his rep.

8th Apr, 2020 06:11:05 AM

I mean, the combination of the fact that a Creator/ page is pointless because he doesn't produce tropable work, a Useful Notes/ page wouldn't be useful, and the fact that any page would very quickly brush up to the ROCEJ leads me to be quite unconvinced that a page for him is necessary.

Now, a trope for Yelling Republican Talk Show Host wouldn't be the worst idea (inspired by Glenn Beck, Alex Jones, Bill O'Reilly, et al) could be viable.

8th Apr, 2020 09:59:11 AM

To sum it up, Hitler and similar nasty dictators have pages because they are important figures in history and often seen in fiction, while Alex Jones and similar far-right figures tend to be forgotten and don't make you understand fiction better.

8th Apr, 2020 10:14:18 AM

That's why I asked if his content was tropeworthy enough to warrant a page.

8th Apr, 2020 10:11:37 PM

Larkman's suggestion might be plausible, though honestly this idea of shutting out pages violates our inclusionist policy.

8th Apr, 2020 10:44:54 PM

There Is No Such Thing as Notability does not mean "anything goes".

There's nothing tropable about Alex Jones's work, so he doesn't need a page.

9th Apr, 2020 09:06:32 AM

Larkmann — maybe make it Yelling Talk Show Host? That way we're not violating ROCEJ by inviting hordes of angry folks to point out that "other hosts yell too". 😏

And I'd be all for an Alex Jones page...when he starts showing up in fictional works as often as Hitler does.

9th Apr, 2020 07:51:04 PM

@Franks Girl—Assuming there are depictions of him in media besides the one I mentioned.

Fighteer MOD
9th Apr, 2020 08:51:36 PM

We are not recreating the article on Alex Jones, folks. Stop trying to backseat drive your way around moderator decisions.

10th Apr, 2020 06:39:44 PM

Sorry about that, though my intent isn't to bring back the article anyway. I' mjust asking what exactly is keeping such pages from being included when other, more despicable people do exist. Jesse Ventura gets a free pass because he was a wrestler besides his later career as a conspiracy theorist, for one.

10th Apr, 2020 06:44:07 PM

I think if you'd like to have a larger conversation about similar cases, that would belong in the forums. ATT's can only get so long.

11th Apr, 2020 07:52:50 AM

... this is such an odd hill to die on while pretending you don't care about it.

I don't know how much clearer we can be. Alex Jones is, frankly irrelevant. Personal preferences aside, he has no tropable body of work and works don't mention him. Comparisons to Jesse Ventura are a hilarious false equivalence. Jesse Ventura was a governor and, oh yes, an actor.

Get back to us when TV shows might reference Alex Jones or when when he fights the biggest action star of the decade (or alongside him).

Edited by Larkmarn
11th Apr, 2020 02:35:01 PM

Right, you've spent this entire discussion dodging every point people have made about how Jones just isn't tropeworthy, and how the fact that other people have pages isn't a reason to make a page for Alex Jones.

11th Apr, 2020 02:46:36 PM

Can we just lock this, please? The mods have already responded. There's no reason for this to go on any further.

11th Apr, 2020 02:53:44 PM

Agreed. I had left it open hoping someone would take the hint and make the forum thread, and link it.

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