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24th Mar, 2020 09:37:27 AM

Forenperser, the other side of the conflict, is trying to add a block of natter (the bullet point that begins with "Except that this ignores that the inhumans...") to the page.

24th Mar, 2020 01:08:37 PM

Cross-coyping from my own thread:

My Little Xero has been deleting entries on both the main and the YMMV page of said event comic.

While other tropers restored them on the main page, I did so on the YMMV page.

Granted, I could've reworked some of the more Natter-y ones before restoring, but still, he went ahead and deleted them again which counts as an edit war.

He also ignores the reasoning behind the edits. It's bit of a controversial storyline, but most of the fandom agreed that the writer went to pretty blant retcon and ass pull territory to make this an even conflict, with the Inhumans having long become a Replacement Scrappy for the X-Men. How to proceed?

Edited by Forenperser
24th Mar, 2020 07:25:07 PM

Is it stated in comic/cannon the inhumans would know that terrigen was lethel to mutants when dispersing it?

24th Mar, 2020 07:31:24 PM

I remember one storyline in which it did mess up Quicksilver when he attempted to regain his power back.

24th Mar, 2020 07:41:35 PM

IIRC, the Inhumans didn't know when they initially dispersed it, but it pretty immediately started killing mutants, and the Inhumans just... didn't really care, refused to stop, and acted like it'd be genocide against Inhumans to stop the cloud from triggering the Inhuman... thingy. Whereas mutants were actively dying and had to leave the planet because of the Terrigen. It made the Inhumans look like assholes.

25th Mar, 2020 12:12:28 AM

Exactly. Soule in this event then tries to make it a balanced conflict by making the Inhumans oblivious of the fact that the cloud is gonna encompass the entire globe soon and the mutants attacking them without telling them (which isn't that unresonable considering how the Inhumans reacted on dispersing the cloud before). Thus Ass Pull.

25th Mar, 2020 05:48:20 AM

Well it's simple isn't it? If they didn't know it would harm mutants when dispersed that's one thing. But to keep the cloud in place and fighting to keep it in place is genocide. Ignorance is one thing, commiting to an action that leads to genocide through inaction when knowing is happening due to your actions is still knowingly committing genocide. The "they didn't know" argument does not hold as they knew later and stayed on course keeping the cloud in place.

25th Mar, 2020 06:06:33 AM

Yeah, thats the thing. They knew exactly what the cloud was gonna do to the mutants at this point, they knew it was moving and they violently defended it previously. The only detail they didn't know at this point of the event was that the cloud was gonna encompass the ENTIRE globe faster than expected.

Which doesn't really make that much of a difference.

Edited by Forenperser
26th Mar, 2020 02:47:42 AM

So considering we have established that the Inhumans were committing genocide after the fact. The fact being that after being made aware the cloud was wiping out mutants and the mutant race and made the cloud a priority over its effects. Then we can re-add the removed trope with as per Forenperser said a less nattery tone. Because the base core of the statement is true. The Mutants were reacting to a genocidal act, even one done with apology.

Edited by Tuvok
26th Mar, 2020 08:43:48 AM

Sounds good. I can provide the writeup. And what about the edit war?

26th Mar, 2020 08:47:30 AM

I would suggest PM'ing the other troper involved, as otherwise they are unlikely to see and participate in this conversation.

26th Mar, 2020 02:29:37 PM

The retcon towards the end of the story that the Inhumans didn't know, when originally they DID know— is that Author's Saving Throw after all the negative reactions to making the Inhumans callously genocidal?

27th Mar, 2020 02:17:20 AM

An attempt, yes, which is why I put the Ass Pull entry up. I can surely mention that too.

Edited by Forenperser
27th Mar, 2020 01:55:26 PM

Posted the tweaked write up now and hope this settles it. Also linked to this thread

28th Mar, 2020 02:47:40 AM

I'm failing to see the point of even talking here. The fact everyone wants to frame the Inhumans actions as deliberate genocide already tells me what the bias is here.

But fine I'll play along anyway, yes the Inhumans did know it was lethal to mutants, however saying they did nothing and didn't care is a lie, one of the reasons why Beast was in the Uncanny Inhumans book before the event started was because he was trying to help the Inhumans find a cure for Terrigen's effects on mutants and one of the first things the Inhumans are seen doing in the story is tracking the cloud and trying to rescue mutants from it. Now what they don't know is that in a matter of weeks Earth will be completely uninhabitable for mutants, and unless I've missed something this is not something they've known so I can't see how it can be a retcon or an asspull that they're shocked by this knowledge.

28th Mar, 2020 03:06:29 AM

The main point of the Ass Pull is not the fact that the Inhumans didn't know it was gonna encompass the entire Earth so quickly. It is that this plot point alone fails to make this conflict an even one.

The cloud should've been dispersed long before it had gotten to this point. It was absolutely irresponsible to leave it up for that long, especially since they DID know before that it was expanding and moving.

While it might not have been direct intended genocide it was, at BEST, gross negligence on the Inhumans part. This storyline is just the culmination of a very controversial run in general.

28th Mar, 2020 03:57:12 AM

Xero even if its not deliberate genocide via direct action. It is deliberate genocide via inaction. If the Inhumans knew the cloud was not only lethel to mutants, but wiping them out as well as driving them from Earth. And took no action to prevent them, ie taking no action under the guise of necessity or protecting the sanctity of the cloud. Then it is still genocide.

28th Mar, 2020 06:31:37 AM

So you just ignored what I said then, in favor of just giving the Inhumans more of the Death Eater treatment. Because I just said how they were looking for cure to its effects and were going out of their way to rescue mutants from the clouds path, but that's apparently inaction now.

Edited by MyLittleXero
28th Mar, 2020 06:45:08 AM

The destruction of the Terrigan cloud is a definite solution to its effects. Which trumps looking for a cure (which may not be found) which is not a solution neither is rescuing mutants from danger from said cloud (which is a stop gap measure) as they are still exiled from Earth. Action is acting against the cloud and its effects. Inaction is taking questionable actions (like looking for a cure that may never be found instead of destroying its source) as well as symbolic at best (rescuing victims from a disaster you caused, but won't stop as its ongoing and creating more danger) because taking no action directly at the cause IS inaction. If said Inaction is causing genocide then it's a genocidal act. Did they commit genocide intentionally, no. But they did cause it and their lack of response to remedy it is inaction leading to genocide. Finding a cure as the dead rise and not destroying the source. Saving the victims while allowing more victims to be made by not acting against the source. Thats not a solution. You seem to want to absolve them of any blame despite evidence to the contrary.

Edited by Tuvok
28th Mar, 2020 06:53:47 AM

The responsible thing would've been to blow the cloud up right away. To, you know, prevent it from infecting MORE people. Looking for a cure is nice, fighting the source would've been much nicer. Instead they initially even reacted violently when the cloud was attacked, as seen in Death of X. And nothing of all this changes the fact that the audience reaction (which is what we are discussing here, not in-universe) was quite poor.

Edited by Forenperser
29th Mar, 2020 07:59:57 AM

So basically there's no point in talking here, because you're gonna refuse to do anything but give the Inhumans the death eater treatment and ignore their actions in trying help and just boil it down to them committing genocide. And here I thought I was on Tvtropes not CBR's toxic X-Men forum. You wanna edit the page to be as inaccurate and biased as possible go ahead then, because clearly nothing I say or do will matter

Edited by MyLittleXero
29th Mar, 2020 08:14:36 AM

Apparently your the only one that feels that way. According to the consensus on this page. Look Xero its not about death eater treatment but accuracy. Which was met I believe with the nod that the Inhumans did not intentionally commit genocide. But their inaction while the cloud was making mutants extinct on multiple levels, and lack of direct and immediate response does confirm that they DID commit genocide via inaction. Its not a conspiracy, just a matter of fact. An act of genocide was committed when no action was committed to stop the immediate and ongoing cause. Actions that yield no immediate result ( saving victims, while allowing the cause to remain in effect to make more victims) or no proof could yield result ( hoping to find a cure , with no reason to be believe one could be found as looking for a cure is no certainty that one is ever found ie cancer ) is not a proactive action or an absolution on inaction leading to genocide.

Edited by Tuvok
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