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Thanks, War Jay 77! I'm actually over there and didn't want to clutter it up with this since that's focused on negativity/complaining. If you don't think it'll be a derailment...?
^ Somehow I missed the fact that you have in fact posted there; whoops.
Well, on one hand, it's Star Wars focused, but I guess you're right that these examples aren't complaint based... I guess we can see what the other people at the thread think?
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

Does anyone else think we need a project to clear up various pages that deal with Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben Solo, specifically the interactions between them, and possibly to address some tropers with a shipping agenda? I've been trying but it's too much to tackle solo (pun intended) and they have disagreed with some of my edits. Some tropers have been writing that Rey and Kylo are "confirmed" "explicitly" "in love", but I think what we see across the films is more like this—
The Force Awakens: Foe Yay Shipping. All of their interactions are antagonistic, and the "subtext" falls into misattribution of arousal.
The Last Jedi: Foe Romance Subtext. They start and end the film as antagonists, but the middle involves intense non-antagonist moments and the held gazes are no longer about fear or aggression. Rian Johnson made it clear the subtext is intentional.
The Rise of Skywalker: After a majority of the film spent as antagonists and maybe Kylo being a Stalker with a Crush who has a Villainous Crush, there's a big Ship Tease kiss immediately followed by Ship Sinking because Kylo/Ben dies.
The Official Couple argument was already settled as NOT an Official Couple since they never actually enter into a romantic relationship: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=83435&type=att
A related concern is tropers overemphasizing what they consider sympathetic about Ben/Kylo and downplaying that he's the Overarching Villain; he isn't heroic after becoming Kylo Ren except for the last act of TROS, and he never chooses the heroic path until his turn back, only feels "conflicted" while choosing villainy over and over except for not killing Leia. I keep seeing tropes that depend on extrapolating a traumatic backstory for him based on context-free mentions of the past or otherwise assuming what his past was like to support a sympathetic read. We haven't actually been given enough material to know many specifics, so there's a lot of Speculative Troping. I'm more iffy about what to do about this. For instance, his character page has: Affably Evil, Anti-Villain, A Lighter Shade of Black, Driven to Villainy, Hidden Heart of Gold, I Just Want to Be Loved, "Shaggy Dog" Story, Sympathetic Murderer, Tragic Villain, and Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.
(Thanks for reading all this!)
Edited by immichan