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Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

19th Nov, 2019 11:42:13 AM

Since this has 12 upvotes but no responses, I had a go at seeing how a combined page would look while rewording several parts. The only problem is that the description feels too wordy.

Edited by Metaverse
19th Nov, 2019 11:54:19 AM

I'd be fine with a separate page for that character. Does bdcosta2 need a talking to though?

19th Nov, 2019 12:26:37 PM

^ Probably not, this seems to be being resolved fine. From what I know of P5, the name "Black Mask" by itself isn't spoilery or anything.

Also, a "The Killer"/"The Traitor"/whatever folder can be separate from the character's other folder, but our spoiler policy usually makes it a fruitless endeavor.

19th Nov, 2019 01:24:09 PM

Wouldn't giving them a separate page result in a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler?

"So, one of our party members is a traitor? Gee, I wonder who it is. Could it be the one who has a separate page with big Spoilers Off warnings all around it?"

One alternative could be to make all of the character pages Spoilers Off, so Goro's page wouldn't stand out as much (since Joker also has a page of his own). Looking at character pages is a bad idea in general if you're trying to avoid spoilers, especially for a work with many mysteries and plot twists, so this would probably not inconvenience too many people.

19th Nov, 2019 01:51:52 PM

Making all the character pages Spoilers Off is like killing a rat with a nuke. Sure, you'll hit the target, but at too great a cost.

Just slap a general "there are some things that we can't avoid" spoiler warning at the top of the Later Members page. Same as what's done on a ton of other character pages.

19th Nov, 2019 02:47:29 PM

I feel like Spoilers Off is used too liberally, see Joker (2019).

19th Nov, 2019 03:25:44 PM

The problem I have is that the Later Members page has this commented out note:

  • Information relating to the Traitor's identity and actions goes in their post-reveal folder on the "Targets" page.

Their identity is It Was His Sled since it was shown in several trailers, meaning that the name of the Black Mask folder could be considered a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler in itself. Arguably them being The Traitor is also common knowledge too. The last part of the sentence is vague, unless I'm misreading or forgetting something, it sounds like we're meant to treat Black Mask as a spoiler even though according to the rules on spoilers anything shown in promotional material is not a spoiler. The third term events where he rejoins are post-reveal yet currently tropes regarding those are scattered between both the Later Members and Major Targets pages.

Edited by Metaverse
19th Nov, 2019 03:52:41 PM

"according to the rules on spoilers anything shown in promotional material is not a spoiler" — isn't that only for stuff shown before the initial release? Otherwise no Late Arrival Spoilers could be tagged.

I'd rather keep the pre- and post-reveal entries separate and keep everything related to Black Mask after he rejoins exclusive to Characters.Persona 5 Major Targets, including Loki.

19th Nov, 2019 04:20:04 PM

^ I could swear it applies to post-release if it was shown in a trailer, unless I'm misreading "if something is shown in a trailer, that means that the developers want you to know it before playing.".

19th Nov, 2019 05:33:56 PM

Trailers released shortly after the original release maybe, but surely not Late Arrival Spoilers from later installments or releases? The developers obviously didn't want people to know Black Mask's identity before playing the original game, and the Royal trailers in question are clearly aimed at people who've played the original game.

19th Nov, 2019 05:34:01 PM

^^ Again, that's more pre-release. A Late-Arrival Spoiler can still be tagged if it hasn't entered Sled territory.

On topic again: People who have played P5, is there actually something spoilery with calling the folder Black Mask?

Edited by RallyBot2
19th Nov, 2019 05:49:55 PM

^ Black Mask by name isn't that much of a spoiler as they're mentioned by Madarame, in the second palace of the game (out of 8/9 depending on if you include Royal). There's two other characters who wear black masks, one is built up as possibly being The Traitor before being dismissed since they've only just recently awakened to a Persona and the other only appears in Royal and awakens their Persona in front of Joker and Morgana after the Thieves are aware of the Black Mask which rules them out. As an irrelevant addendum, the game reveals Black Mask's true identity as early as the TV station visit after beating Madarame but it's easy to miss: They overhear Morgana speaking about pancakes and bring up pancakes to the group, even though earlier on in the game Morgana mentions that only those who have visited the Metaverse can understand him.

Edited by Metaverse
21st Nov, 2019 10:54:11 AM

Bumping since both folders are still a mess.

21st Nov, 2019 10:56:40 AM

Just so you guys know, we have a Character Page Cleanup thread now. Might it be better to hash this out there?

21st Nov, 2019 11:00:12 AM

^ I forgot about that. I'll take it there instead.

1st Dec, 2019 01:14:45 PM

Hey guys, just a reminder that if you want to help work on this page, it's now been taken here.

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