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9th Oct, 2019 04:44:23 PM

For the first one, you need to explain why it could be interpreted as being about addiction, perhaps by quoting relevant parts of the lyrics.

9th Oct, 2019 04:52:16 PM

^ How's this:

  • Ode to Intoxication: The band's singer has stated that, if not interpreted as an anti-love song, it could also be about addiction. The fact that the "woman" (represented by Pamela Anderson/Vallery Irons) is described as using up his friends and plans, yet she still "means everything (to him)", and the fact that in the end she ultimately devours him support this alternative interpretation.

Edited by Drakos25
9th Oct, 2019 05:13:24 PM

^ This topic is discussed in the long-term thread Fixing Zero-context Example.

Each example has to stand on its own and be clearly explained. Other examples of tropes on the page are not substitute.

You have written a decently long example context, yet you didn't manage to explain what Ode to Intoxication even is. Ode to Intoxication is a song about getting high and how it's awesome (it can be played deadly straight, or it can be sarcastic). Personally I think "Miserable" is not an example of this trope at all. And I'll add that intoxication and addiction are different things.

Edited by XFllo
9th Oct, 2019 05:36:53 PM

^Ode to Intoxication can be about addiction in general as well, as several legitimate examples on the page can attest to. And explaining what Ode to Intoxication is, is the responsibility of its own trope page.

9th Oct, 2019 05:46:39 PM

^ You can't rely on that idea. What reader would want to stop click a new link, and read an entire trope description, just to know what the trope is?

You need to explain examples under the assumption that whoever comes to read them will

  • Not be familiar with the source
  • Not be familiar with the trope

9th Oct, 2019 05:48:01 PM

^ I don't see how my revitalized example is not doing that.

9th Oct, 2019 05:49:01 PM

Ode to Intoxication can be about addiction in general as well.

I disagree. If there are such examples on the page, they might be misuse that should be removed. (If they're songs about how addiction is awesome, it might be a missing trope.)

And explaining what Ode to Intoxication is, is the responsibility of its own trope page.

No. That is specifically against our rules.

Edited by XFllo
9th Oct, 2019 05:50:06 PM

^ And I disagree with you on your assessment of Ode to Intoxication

9th Oct, 2019 05:51:48 PM

^ And since it's one against one, we have to wait for others to chime in until it's clear who is correct. This wiki works on consensus.

9th Oct, 2019 06:16:38 PM

it's neither of those. Ode to Intoxication is specifically about intoxication. it says right at the top that it's about mind-altering substances. and the song does nothing to sing the praises of sobriety either.

here's a tip: if you feel like you're having to fight or take liberties with the trope to make the example fit, it's probably not an example.

e: also, "with everything on the page" is not enough for context. it's longstanding policy that every entry on a page should be written as if it's the only entry on the page. no referring to other entries or relying on them to provide context. they might be removed, and then your entry becomes worthless.

Edited by razorrozar7
9th Oct, 2019 07:28:51 PM

^ "if you feel like you're having to fight or take liberties with the trope to make the example fit, it's probably not an example."

But I'm not the one who was saying that it could be seen as being about addiction. The lead singer himself is the one who said it could be interpreted that way.

See for yourself https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miserable_(song)

9th Oct, 2019 07:44:02 PM

but the trope isn't about addiction. it's specifically about mind-altering substances. it doesn't matter what the singer said if the trope doesn't fit.

9th Oct, 2019 08:40:58 PM

^Are there any tropes that are about addiction songs specifically? Because if there is, it may fit there instead and I'd be happy to drop this whole argument.

9th Oct, 2019 08:46:35 PM

You could try asking in Trope Finder. It's a specialized query for finding tropes you're not sure exist.

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