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Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

7th Aug, 2019 09:52:54 PM

if it is, it's definitely not mentioned there or enforced. TLP Bump even says it's the appropriate thing to do if you think a TLP needs more attention, but don't have anything to contribute yourself - sometimes you can tell something would be a good trope, but don't have any examples yourself, so you bump it in order to get it more wiki magic.

if this is against the rules, then it's another issue to be added to the numerous other Administrivia issues Jay and i have been pointing out.

7th Aug, 2019 09:59:21 PM

copying the mod admonitions against TLP bumping here in the interest of consolidating discussion:



v get ninja'd B)

Edited by razorrozar7
7th Aug, 2019 09:59:58 PM

^ Ninja'd

Edited by WarJay77
7th Aug, 2019 10:05:39 PM

i will say that in this particular case, the bumped TLP was almost seven(!!!) years old, so old that its wicks weren't even namespaced properly, and the bumper did absolutely nothing to bring it in line with current wiki standards. that's definitely a breach of wiki etiquette and needs to be dealt with. the more general question of whether it's okay to no-content bump a TLP at all still needs to be dealt with, however.

Edited by razorrozar7
8th Aug, 2019 09:34:10 AM

TLP Guidelines says the following:

  • If your trope slides down the page without getting any replies, you might want to give it a TLP Bump. There are two ways of doing this: Edit the entry (click on the little pencil icon at the top of the entry, whose location tends to vary depending on which web browser you use) and enter "save changes" without making any changes, which will automatically bump the TLP to the top of the stack without adding new replies. Or just add a new reply.


If you see a good draft that's been inactive for a while, give it a TLP Bump and let people weigh in before launching.

In both cases, there is no mention of a requirement to contribute anything to the TLP proposal as part of the bump.

Edited by Arivne
8th Aug, 2019 09:42:54 AM

^right. the issue is that, as linked above, the moderators say otherwise.

8th Aug, 2019 11:52:37 AM

Yeah, the information is conflicting and I want to understand.

8th Aug, 2019 01:56:57 PM

Why is TLP Bumping bad exactly? Obviously it's better to contribute something in your comment, but if you find an old draft that seems basically launchable, what's the problem with just bumping it? Things get lost on the TLP very quickly.

In fairness, that edit to the page was made by me in 2018 after discussion on the TLP crash rescue thread here and here. Nobody objected at the time, and I didn't realize there was policy about TLP bumps, but I guess I should have gotten more mod input.

8th Aug, 2019 02:01:34 PM

A lot of bumped drafts are very poorly done and several years old, and the Bumper does nothing but say "TLP Bump" and then leave to make other people take care of the draft they apparently were interested in enough to bump but not in enough to actually try and contribute to.

I think the big one, though, is that it just re-arranges the pile. It doesn't help get rid of the backlog, it only changes what's in that backlog, with newer drafts being hidden until a bunch of older ones.

...I may also be a little salty since 4tell kept calling out discard efforts for bomb-bumping, but at least that sort of thing gets rid of bad drafts making a lot of clutter, rather than just rearranges the pile. Meanwhile, they constantly "TLP Bump" drafts without adding anything to them, so it seems a little hypocritical and confusing when the only things I've heard mods say on the matter is that it's TLP Bumping that's a bad practice, not discard-bumping.

Edited by WarJay77
9th Aug, 2019 12:48:54 AM

mods, we really do need to start talking about these Administrivia issues. if the places people are sent to learn the rules don't reflect the current state of those rules, it causes headaches for everyone, especially the people who enforce those rules, i.e. you guys.

talk to us.

9th Aug, 2019 01:51:56 AM

It's a bit complex.

On the one hand, we are definitively not very consistent on updating policy pages. OTOH we generally don't add every caveat to a policy page as that tends to make them unreadably long and complicated.

9th Aug, 2019 01:54:36 AM

But some pages are outright contradictory about current policy or current wiki culture (see also: This Thread) and with this issue specifically it's outright spreading confusion and misinformation.

Is it okay to TLP Bump without adding anything else, or is it against the rules? The administrivia pages encourage it, mod posts treat it as a bannable offence.

Edit: My concern with these pages isn't about tacking on long addenums, it's about changing information that's no longer true or is generally inaccurate and unhelpful. This issue, though, is more about a discrepancy between Mod Fiat and the rules on the pages.

Edited by WarJay77
9th Aug, 2019 03:07:56 AM

^^yall don't have to do all the work. i wouldnt mind helping update the pages, and im sure Jay wouldn't either. we just need to know what the policy is.

12th Aug, 2019 05:02:46 PM

Still just waiting on a definitive answer.

12th Aug, 2019 05:36:20 PM

Up to a point, a bump from an active participant is fine, but empty mass bumps or many bumps of the same TLP in a short timeframe are not fine. Serial bumping of TLPs, in particular if you have not been a participant otherwise, is not something we want to encourage.

12th Aug, 2019 05:39:02 PM

So is Serial Bumping just mass bumping the same draft repeatedly, or is it also for mass bumping a large quantity of drafts?

In any case, the policy pages should reflect this fact.

12th Aug, 2019 05:51:21 PM


To be honest, I'm quoting from other mods who are more familiar with TLP, so I'll ping them to see about editing the policy page.

12th Aug, 2019 05:55:07 PM

Thanks, the inconsistency has caused a lot of confusion, so I hope it can be fixed.

13th Aug, 2019 02:42:24 AM

Added a line on TLP Guidelines on this matter.


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