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Trope Related Question:

Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

RallyBot2 (Elder Troper)
2019-06-19 08:57:56

Commented-out examples should not be added. Feel free to remove them.

Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2019-06-19 09:07:23

That just creates even more work down the line. If it shouldn't be done, alright. Maybe drop then a PM to that effect, or put it in the Discussion page, and report them if they keep doing it. But if it's a valid example, then like with redlinked creator and works pages, I'd say it's better to leave it there to encourage someone to make it.

Arctimon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2019-06-19 09:54:29

DO they know, though?

You’d be surprised by the amount people who just start editing willy-nilly without reading the rules.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
2019-06-19 10:29:22

I'd like to get moderator confirmation that adding in pre-commented-out entries is against the rules and they may be removed at will.

Because I also see that a lot on pages for unreleased works, and when I brought it up on the cleanup thread I got a non-committal response.

If it's considered kosher to delete them on sight, I plan to start doing so, because I see it as a blatant attempt to circumvent the rules about troping unreleased works.

Kayube (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2019-06-19 10:40:54

I've also seen it done when information about an ongoing series gets leaked- people will put the entries in commented out, with the intention of uncommenting them when the information is officially revealed.

Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2019-06-19 11:04:28

That strikes me as a different case from already-released works. I don't have a problem with removing/avoiding unconfirmed or spectulative information.

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2019-06-19 11:21:07

This has been done for some time. We don't have a specific rule against it so it ain't forbidden but the people who do so should be asked to write out proper context.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
2019-06-19 12:10:32

I guess I'm a little confused. There's no specific rule against it, but people shouldn't do it, and if they do do it they should be asked to stop? And if they don't?

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-06-19 12:14:38

There's two different discussions here;

  • adding ZCE already commented-out
  • adding unreleased work examples already commented-out
There's (often) overlap, but they are not identical issues. I think the first is a natural outgrowth of our policy on commenting-out ZCE (instead of removing them), while the second is attempting to circumvent policy on context for unreleased work examples.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
2019-06-19 12:23:35

I mean, in either case people are adding entries that they clearly know are not acceptable as written in the hope that someone will come in after them and clean it up for them. That strikes me as not kosher behavior regardless of the specific reason the entry is unacceptable.

Edited by HighCrate
Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2019-06-19 12:26:29

If it's not, it's not, and they should be messaged about it, and if they keep doing it, reported to a mod. But deleting the entries doesn't actually solve the problem in the first discussion.

Edited by Unsung
nombretomado (Season 1)
2019-06-19 17:21:14

Honestly, I'm not fond of it. We comment out examples that were placed onto the page improperly, after the fact. Adding things for the sole purpose of being commented out and maybe a promise of "I'll work on it later" isn't a good procedure. We have sandboxes for that kind of "working on it!" edit.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
2019-06-19 17:48:00

So, for example, the most recent three edits in Fire Emblem: Three Houses have been Speculative Troping (in the sense that they're written as if they apply to a game that has not been released yet), but with the entries already hidden by comment tags.

Would it be acceptable to delete these entries with a link to this ATT in the edit reason?

I've been seeing this kind of thing in quite a few places, so I'd like to figure out the best practice for handling it.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-06-19 17:51:40

We comment out examples that were placed onto the page improperly, after the fact.
That's our motivation, but it leaves the wiki littered with pages where ZCE are left commented-out for years with nobody expanding them. I think a reasonable misunderstanding of events is for newbie editors to believe "obvious" examples must include %%* code.
We don't have unreleased work examples commented-out across the wiki, so the same excuse doesn't work.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
2019-06-24 09:39:22

As we still have not gotten a clear answer from the moderation staff regarding best practices for handling pre-hidden trope entries, I have created a new thread laying out the scope of the problem as I see it and offering recommendations. Input is welcome.

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2019-06-24 10:57:51

I've clarified the policy: It is never acceptable to add pre-commented examples to articles. Never, under any circumstances, no matter what.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kuruni (Long Runner)
2019-06-24 11:12:20

Well, think of it this way. Comment out or not, what they do is still either adding ZCE or speculative troping and neither is acceptable. And they should be notify according to what they have done.

Now, what to do with it? There's no doubt that speculative troping can be outright deleted. But for ZCE, I think all we can do is send them a ZCE notification and lets them get what they want for once.

Edited by Kuruni
rjd1922 Since: May, 2013
2019-06-24 12:36:09

I agree with Kuruni; only speculation, outright wrong examples, or examples based in leaks should be outright deleted.

Keet cleanup
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