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10th Jun, 2019 11:04:18 PM

We definitely trope real life events such as wars. People in Useful Notes I'm not sure (people in Creators only get tropes applying to their works or roles).

Edited by Chabal2
10th Jun, 2019 11:16:49 PM

No we dont. That's troping Real Life.

10th Jun, 2019 11:46:44 PM

If we didn't trope anything from Real Life, that link right before the comma would be red.

10th Jun, 2019 11:55:47 PM

I meant more touchy subject like wars and so on. I should have definitely specified tho.

11th Jun, 2019 12:13:41 AM

I have always been a bit concerned that these pages are pushing the boundaries of our mission quite a bit, by the way. I don't have a specific objection against a particular page but it's a lot of them.

11th Jun, 2019 12:15:15 AM

Real Life is not a work (that page's joke aside) but there's no harm listing examples of tropes in real life if we exercise caution and don't attack RL people or anything like that.

11th Jun, 2019 05:28:23 AM

IMO on useful notes pages trope lists should be limited to tropes that occur frequently in fictional depictions of the page content.

There is a subtle difference to me between listing things that happen in real life to illustrate a trope and treating real life like a work that can be analyzed, which is what’s going on here.

Fighteer MOD
11th Jun, 2019 07:31:35 AM

^ This is correct.

Useful Notes articles should not independently trope their subjects. If any tropes are listed at all, they should be ones commonly found in fictional depictions of the subject. Any articles violating this rule should be cleaned up. Joseph Green is edit warring and will be suspended.

Edited by Fighteer
11th Jun, 2019 08:27:54 PM

So does this mean that all the tropes in the Wars in History articles are to be deleted? I was just following what others did in those pages when I first worked on the Germanic Wars Useful Notes page.

11th Jun, 2019 08:33:53 PM

^ If the trope examples contained factual information not already stated by the description, the information should be rewritten into the description. Otherwise remove all the tropes that are not tropes common to fictional depictions of the events.

Edited by Albert3105
11th Jun, 2019 10:57:09 PM

the information should be rewritten into the description

Can this be repeated few times to people? Because I just found handful of pages where almost entire description of events was done by troping (Franco-Prussian War, Mexican-American War, No More Emperors) being simply cut out without a second thought that hey, maybe if the troping takes 2/3 of the article, it might be worth to read it first and then edit into the article proper, rather than just cutting things out and be done with it, never to return to the article. Right now the articles are bare bones they once were, with no context, sense or often important and pivotal elements.

Feels really damn bad, like in all cases involving extreme trimming of articles. In fact, No More Emperors long trope listing was how I motivate freshmen from my department into reading handful of doorstoppers for their Chinese Civil War exam, so it was more than just handy.


inb4 "do it yourself" - I'm perfectly aware of my limited grasp of English grammar. And I can get people for the check of tropes, but not for a semi-serious historical article. At least not for free.

Edited by Dratewka
15th Jun, 2019 01:49:59 PM

I noticed there was a dispute about the issue of tropes on Useful Notes pages on UsefulNotes.RMS Titanic.

17th Jun, 2019 06:04:05 PM

Sent them a PM about it. No response as of yet, but since it's against policy, it'll probably be reverted at some point.

17th Jun, 2019 07:44:40 PM

If there are other pages that trope historical like that, they should all be discussed at once.

29th Jun, 2019 07:11:19 PM

Time out. A lot of tropers put a lot of hard work into this page, making it informative, relevant, and fun to read. Now someone comes along and decides to delete all the effort and hard work? I'm sorry, but there's no way all the people who worked on and enjoyed that page should have to sit still for that. How do we kick this upstairs? This is supposed to be a FUN site, not Wikipeida.

29th Jun, 2019 09:00:54 PM

Now someone comes along and decides to delete all the effort and hard work? I'm sorry, but there's no way all the people who worked on and enjoyed that page should have to sit still for that. should have witness what happen after The Second Google Incident. Effort and hard work is meaningless if it's put in wrong place.

Edited by Kuruni
30th Jun, 2019 11:31:29 AM

@Traveler: Don't know what the point was in bumping a ATT thread two weeks after it had already been resolved.

And the "upstairs" (whom I assume you mean the mods) HAVE already spoken in here. It's not a matter of of having fun; it's a matter of the rules being broken. Fighteer has already made mention of the rule here.

Requesting a lock.

21st Aug, 2019 10:57:23 AM

Well this is awkward. The site could've saved us a lot of time and embarrassment if the rules and policies on this were clearer. I suppose Chernobyl's Useful Notes are next to fall.

21st Aug, 2019 11:01:15 AM

...It's right there on the page:

"Useful Notes articles are not tropes and are not to be included in a work's trope list...Similarly, tropes are not to be used to describe the subject of a Useful Notes article directly. You may, however, list tropes that are commonly found in media portraying the subject."

21st Aug, 2019 11:08:19 AM

Fighteer added it shortly after he posted in here. That was the clarification.

And it's not a matter of "embarrassment", whatever that means. It's against the rules. So if that page does have tropes on it about the event, they also need to be deleted.

29th May, 2020 08:14:00 AM

So almost a year have passed... and the articles were not rewritten nor the informations retained. It's basically "clean-up by cutting, content doesn't matter, who cares anyway" type of deal, with everyone involved not even remembering this was a thing.

This is the first year I can't send freshmen to read No More Emperors as a primer to the mess in China during the first half of 20th century, since the article no longer exists in its edutainment form. Thanks for the clean-up, I guess.

29th May, 2020 08:52:35 AM

Bumping this after almost a year just to complain about the policy serves no purpose at all.

Useful Notes don't get tropes. Moderators have made their point on the subject. Complaining about that changes nothing. Take it up with them if you still have issues with it.

Requesting a lock.

29th May, 2020 08:55:51 AM

^^ I still see an article at that location. If there's missing information to be added, anyone can do it.


How well does it match the trope?

Example of:


Media sources: