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Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2019-04-30 11:01:33

It's supposed to be adaptation-exclusive, like all other adaptation tropes.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kuruni (Long Runner)
2019-04-30 11:07:15

I've saw too many misuse then (usually by compare a work to previous installment, or even another unrelated work(s) from same creator).

Is it the same with Darker and Edgier?

Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
2019-04-30 11:42:31

Send to the Trope Repair Shop? The title of the trope does not make it clear at all that it's meant to be an adaptation trope - if it's so universally used on this wiki to refer to sequel/prequel stories (I've seen trope descriptions rely on the "sequel/prequel" meaning such as on Cerebus Syndrome) changing tone, the adaptation trope could be spun off under a different name.

Edited by Albert3105
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-04-30 12:26:12

I think it should be all Derivative Works, not just adaptations, but that still excludes a work shifting in tone over time.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Kuruni (Long Runner)
2019-04-30 23:10:26

^ Sound good enough.

Hmm... there're four other Snowclones - Younger and Hipper, Denser and Wackier, Hotter and Sexier, and Bloodier and Gorier, the last one is even emphasize on its usage in sequel.

JRads47 Since: Nov, 2014
2019-04-30 23:15:23

The more appropriate trope for single stories is Reverse Cerebus Syndrome.

Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
2019-05-01 08:02:38

I've checked the Laconic's edit history, so here's the rundown:

The Laconic used to specifically state that it's a about a "work" that is retooled. No "adaptation" is to be found, and it's consistent with the description having phrases like "This can either happen to a show over time" and "In music, this may result in an artist merely recording a Surprisingly Gentle Song, or it could lead to the artist having a complete Genre Shift to a lighter genre." Then BURGINABC changed the Laconic in May 2018 to restrict it to adaptations.

Edited by Albert3105
Kuruni (Long Runner)
2019-05-01 23:27:19

The problem with apply Darker and Edgier and Lighter and Softer to sequel/prequel, or simply being works from same creator is that it's often both (by compare a work to multiple works) and make the tropes pointless.

As much as I want to take Fighteer's verdict and start cutting examples, it look like these tropes need TRS treatment, if not long term project.

Kuruni (Long Runner)
2019-05-04 21:46:09

Alright, I'm going to made a TRS thread. Is it alright to group all Snowclones in single thread?

Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2019-05-05 11:35:17

^^ They're still separate works. I don't quite see how it's pointless — on the contrary, I think the fact that a series can zigzag tonally, even within a single entry, is working as intended.

Edited by Unsung
miraculous (Apprentice)
2019-05-05 11:55:53

I don't see the problem either tbh, Plus this just came about because someone changed the laconic. Just change it back.

Also making a trs thread for something that isnt even an issue anyway when were currently bogged down there on a bunch of other stuff seems I dunno pointless and hugely unnecessary.

Edited by miraculous "That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
2019-05-05 13:11:18

Motion to revert the laconic?

Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
miraculous (Apprentice)
2019-05-05 13:34:14

Go ahead.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
2019-05-05 13:57:03

Revert accomplished.

Kuruni (Long Runner)
2019-05-05 21:45:00

Plus this just came about because someone changed the laconic. Just change it back.

Except that Fighteer said it's supposed to be adaptation-exclusive. So I think this is more of Trope Decay than someone changed the laconic.

Well, since people seem to happy about how it is, so be it.

Edited by Kuruni
Unicorndance Since: Jul, 2015
2019-05-05 22:23:22

Why are there so many tropes called "Xer and Yer" anyway?

For every low there is a high.
Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
2019-05-05 22:26:11

@Kuruni The page history (and Wayback Machine archives) for the main Lighter and Softer page indicates that it has never been defined as adaptation-only for as long as the trope has existed, since 2007.

Edited by Albert3105
miraculous (Apprentice)
2019-05-05 22:50:16

@kuruni: I think fighteer may have been simply been mistaken. Those pages have never been defined as adaptation exclusive.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2019-05-05 22:54:18

@unicorndance Darker and Edgier, Lighter and Softer, Hotter and Sexier, Bloodier and Gorier, and Younger and Hipper all probably predate this website, while Denser and Wackier just fit the pattern. Older and Wiser is unrelated, but has been around for a long, long time.

In the most basic terms, it's just a way of phrasing things that's gained popularity because it sounds good, people find it catchy. Someone somewhere has probably written a doctorate on why the poetry of it works or the underlying psychology of its appeal.

Edited by Unsung
Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
2019-05-06 07:29:37

I've reverted an attempt to delete part of the main description of Lighter and Softer that was done under the impression that it was an adaptation-only trope.

I don't recall ever seeing an example of inverse Trope Decay before coming across what happened to Lighter and Softer.

Edited by Albert3105
miraculous (Apprentice)
2019-05-06 07:43:40

I think this thread may have genuinely confused people into thinking it was an adaptation-only trope when it never was.

^We come up with new stuff here all the time. Lol.

Edited by miraculous "That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-05-06 07:45:03

Except that Reverse Cerebus Syndrome is when it happens within a work.

Edited by crazysamaritan Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
miraculous (Apprentice)
2019-05-06 07:51:35

Have you actually read the page of Reverse Cerebus Syndrome. Its more a move towards comedy which fits since its the inverse of Cerebus Syndrome which is a move towards drama. Lighter and Softer doesn't automatically mean a shift towards goofy laughs. Cerebus Syndrome even notes that it doesn't automatically fall under Darker and Edgier as the work could still keep the same tone just be more drama filled rather then darker.

Edited by miraculous "That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-05-06 09:53:52

That was rude.

Yes, it's a move towards an elusive and fast-moving target to define, whose roots are something primarily happy, and having happy endings. It's cheery rather than tragic. It's lighthearted rather than depressing. It's warm and fluffy rather than dark and serious. It's a Tone Shift that occurs as the original source develops rather than being a separate work.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
miraculous (Apprentice)
2019-05-06 10:06:55

Alright might have been sliglty rude so for that I take it back but my point still stands.

Umh it doesnt say anything like that though. It simply says a change towards more goofiness and laughs. Im not getting that from the trope page.

Plus Ill note. Black Comedy and Crosses the Line Twice are things. A work can still keep itself dark while still being hilarious.

Heck I'd argue from a few of the examples on Reverse Cerebus Syndrome page that are this rather then Lighter and Softer. Nightmare and elm street sequels. Definitly goofy. Can I say something with a Serial Killer who murders people for a sick sense of hunour is Lighter and Softer though. Same with childs play.

Edited by miraculous "That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
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