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Zuxtron (On A Trope Odyssey)
2019-03-19 14:01:04

Vanilla Protagonist is a bad example. It's a trope for a main character who is relatively bland in order to help make the supporting cast more interesting by comparison. It's not for complaining about boring protagonists.

iamconstantine Since: Aug, 2014
2019-03-19 15:03:14

This might have a better place on the film's discussion pages.

StFan Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-19 15:22:50

The Bond Villain Stupidity one is entirely wrong; he didn't shoot her because he realized it would be pointless considering how overpowered she is by this point. Goading her into not using her superpowers by appealing to a fist fight was the only way he stood somewhat a chance.

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
2019-03-19 15:55:29

The first isn't YMMV if it was put there. The vanilla protagonist is very misused and it does read as complaining.

Tuvok Since: Feb, 2010
2019-03-19 16:18:39

None of the above examples are correct. Some are just plain complaining. Also seems nattery as well. I would recommend removing and giving reasons why. On second reading I am getting a lot of opinion used to justify complaints and that's ZCE on top of everything else.

Edited by Tuvok
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-19 16:37:54

Given how much trouble this movie caused long before it was even out, I'd say it's probably safe to assume that any particularly negative YMMV is more likely than not going to be shoehorned complaining.

RallyBot2 (Elder Troper)
2019-03-19 22:30:42

^ Erm... no. Don't try and pretend that this movie doesn't have any flaws. Negative YMMVs about the movie are welcome to stay if they're actually about the movie.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-19 22:40:32

Hence "more likely than not". I'm not saying all of them are invalid, just a disproportionate amount based on the amount of drama and complaining this page has already attracted before the movie was even in theaters.

For example, as already noted by others, literally everything in the OP.

Edited by sgamer82
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper)
2019-03-19 22:47:54

Have you even looked at the page post-release? It's perfectly fine.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-19 22:50:30

Which doesn't change the fact that this movie has caused a disproportionate amount of drama for a single movie.

The primary reason it's perfectly fine is because of threads like this keeping tabs on it.

Nearly a third of the most recent edits involve some form of misuse deletion, including ones from this thread.

Edited by sgamer82
Tuvok Since: Feb, 2010
2019-03-20 01:20:52

It also doesnt change the fact that the above edits seem more like opinion pieces. Not only that half are not valid. Example of course after seeing Carol decimate a fleet with her powers her former Captain is not going to try to go toe to toe power wise, thats just common sense not stupidity. Also Vanilla protaganist really comes off ZCE, more to be put there to complain then to be a point. If they could provide links to criticisms online fine, if they could make it seem more a valid point and less about what they disliked even better. Also its hard to take that example seriously when even BEFORE the film came out many so called fans were already complaining about her existence. So any example especially one that comes out more about a gripe then stating a trope. I would take with a grain of salt. Especially now with conspiracy theories online trying to downplay the films success to an almost toxic degree. You just have to go on You Tube to see how crazy it is. Simply put, can we honestly say that 'some' people find her vanilla, or is it the usual lot which taints any such criticism because we simply CANT take it at face value. Considering the fan toxicity was so bad we had to shut down the YMMV twice! In retrospect there is no way to add that example because thanks to the divided fandom and hate on the character even before their showing. The trope cannot be added fairly because the character was judged and marked as 'boring' or worse even before the film came out. Tainted opinions means that the trope cannot be added without suspected motivations .

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
2019-03-20 04:37:54

Artistic licence military: the film specifies that they test the research planes. I don't know how historically accurate that could be, but possibly needs mentioning if you want to keep that example. Also feels nattery

Narm: Maybe? Fury points out immediately that destroying the jukebox wasn't particularly sensible, the rest of it feels like weird complaining.

As said, vanilla protag isn't a good use of the trope and feels complain-y

Clanger00 Since: Oct, 2011
2019-03-20 10:36:28

I don't think any of those examples are correct.

  • Artistic License – Military: Carol and Maria were testing research for Minn (so they're not technically fighter pilots) and its implied a lot of the stuff they did with Minn was clandestine since Minn was working on her own project whilst employed in the military (that her bosses may or may not have known about).
  • Bond Villain Stupidity is just wrong. It was made very clear that Yon realised his gun wouldn't help him against the extremely OP Carol so he tried to goad her into a powerless fist fight because it was the only way he'd have a chance. That's the opposite of stupidity.
  • Narm is misuse. It's for unintentionally funny scenes. Both those scenes are intentionally funny. Fury even points out that her blast doesn't prove anything because he has no idea what a Kree or Skrull is.
  • Vanilla Protagonist is misuse. A vanilla protag is "a protagonist whose characteristics and background are plainer or simpler compared to the rest of the cast". Carol is not plainer than the rest of the movie cast.

edit: I just noticed that Emberfist re-added examples to the YMMV (which was also incorrectly formatted and had grammatical errors) and Main pages without edit reasons and despite people here criticising said examples.

Edited by Clanger00
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
2019-03-20 10:52:22

The Narm examples were already removed by someone else.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-20 11:36:56

^^ Does the re-adding make it an edit war or is it just edit #2?

Clanger00 Since: Oct, 2011
2019-03-20 11:55:58

^ Edit 3.

  • The Narm example was first added by Emberfist.
  • Then removed by Death'sApprentice with the edit reason "That bit where she tried to prove she wasn't a Skrull using her photon blast to Fury was intended to be a joke. I'm pretty sure that doesn't count as Narm."
  • Then re-added unaltered by Emberfist with no edit reason and no link to this thread.

...

  • The Artistic License example was first added by Emberfist
  • Then removed by Azure Owl with the edit reason "Maria mentions that at the time of Carol's disappearance, women weren't allowed to fly in combat. This is why they flew experimental planes at Project Pegasus."
  • Then re-added by Emberfist with a bit about how the film handwaves it using the above excuse but it still counts. Again no edit reason or link here. He also incorrectly links to Artistic License – Military.

Edited by Clanger00
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2019-03-20 12:05:39

Oh, Emberfist... why'd you bother bringing the examples here if you were just going to edit war over them anyway?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-20 13:06:31

And it's not like ~Emberfist wasn't warned about this exact type of thing last time they were suspended (specifically edit warring she respecting the consensus)

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2019-03-20 13:07:34

If I remember correctly, both their suspensions were over edit wars, so I guess that's that.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2019-03-20 14:02:27

Please don't backseat mod. However, you are right that this is the end for Emberfist.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2019-03-20 14:09:11

Sorry, wasn't my intention Fighteer.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
2019-03-20 14:25:56

For what it’s worth the Artistic License – Military currently has a justifying entry for it.

DragonRanger (Troper Knight)
2019-03-20 14:39:03

The justifying entry isn't valid - it says that the movie takes place after women were okayed to fly combat in 1993, but the editor forgot that the movie's US Air Force stuff was all in flashbacks to 1989. I was tempted to cut the justification and/or tweak the main entry based on that, but I wanted to wait until this thread had a consensus.

Clanger00 Since: Oct, 2011
2019-03-20 14:46:40

I didn't pull the Artistic License example because I wasn't sure whether other people wanted to keep it. But my vote is to remove it entirely since different people have now given multiple justifications for the pilot thing (they weren't fighter pilots, their flying was kept on the down low, the film possibly takes place after the ban was lifted, etc).

Edited by Clanger00
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-03-20 15:05:01

The timeline excuse doesn't work because the film takes place over different decades. That said, this thread seems to be in agreement that it isn't military license being taken.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-20 15:53:10

Please don't backseat mod. However, you are right that this is the end for Emberfist.

Sorry, wasn't my intention Fighteer.
Nor mine, if that was directed to me at all.

Tuvok Since: Feb, 2010
2019-03-20 16:06:34

Can artistic military license apply to the MCU universe? Ww 2 had mixed battelions at a time when segregation was in effect. Hell in the potential recriuts to receive the super serum some were black. The MCU Military seems more pragmatic then real life.

nombretomado (Season 1)
2019-03-20 17:28:59

Folks, can we take this to the discussion page? I'm glad we've got a lot of voices here, but this is getting pretty dang lengthy.

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