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Trope Related Question:

Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2019-03-14 23:23:08

Posted about this in the moderator discussion.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
shoboni Since: Oct, 2010
2019-03-15 02:16:17

Even as a Cis person I gotta speak up and say that name is a little uncomfortable because it conflates someone that's just pretending to be the opposite sex for a relationship with people that are actually transgender which has some Unfortunate Implications

We really need a better title on that.

Edited by shoboni
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper)
2019-03-15 02:35:06

It has two examples in actual media right now. As is, I don't see enough to launch it.

Also, needs a better title and description.

XFllo Since: Aug, 2012
2019-03-15 02:57:14

Well, no one said it is launchable in the current state. Name needs work and it needs examples from media — if there are any. I also said several times I'd happily discard it myself if the discussion lead nowhere.

Thanks for restoring the draft. I wouldn't want to edit war.

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
2019-03-15 08:35:37

Well, the draft right now does a really, really poor job of explaining what it's about. At first glance, I thought I meant: "don't be gay, be trans instead".

If it's going to be kept, then it needs a better title and description ASAP.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
DracMonster Since: Jan, 2001
2019-03-15 08:40:32

You know, since it has all those bombs attached, it might be better to discard and start from scratch anyway.

GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2019-03-15 09:04:35

It's really badly written and I'm not quite sure that being forced to go through a sex-change operation really counts as being trans.

Edited by GnomeTitan
Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2019-03-15 14:10:29

I've mentioned it on the TLP itself, but I think it's already covered by Trans Equals Gay, and splitting it off as a subtrope basically requires a mindset that Trans Equals Gay is Truth in Television (since it requires the idea that a trans persons just a "super gay" who wants to become a member of the opposite gender, rather than anything resembling an actual trans person to make logical sense, which would mean that Trans Equals Gay already covers it).

TV Tropes's No. 1 bread themed lesbian. she/her, fae/faer
Clanger00 Since: Oct, 2011
2019-03-15 15:12:09

I disagree that splitting the subtrope rests on believing Trans Equals Gay is true IRL. The IRL Pakistani and Iranian examples consider the two to be entirely separate: they believe that gayness is a choice but transness is a medical condition that can be cured with SRS, which is why one is strongly stigmatised and the other supported, and non-trans people are having sex changes specifically so they don't get accused of being gay.

Edited by Clanger00
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2019-03-15 15:31:40

Guys, the problem isn't whether or not the trope is a good one, the problem is someone discarding twice after Xfllo had expressed their interest in trying to make the draft work. If the idea can't work it will be discarded, but it's wrong to make a call like that ignorant of anyone who wants to try to make the idea work.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
2019-03-17 09:23:53

I meant to bomb it but pushed discard by accident. Can someone please restore it?

God, this is so embarrassing. I'm so sorry.

Edit: restored it.

Edited by RoundRobin - Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
WaterBlap Since: May, 2014
2019-03-17 09:49:13

I didn't see this before my post in the TLP clean-up thread (here). Honestly, I think the draft is not salvageable from 0 hats and 14 bombs. Just discard and start afresh with a better description and different name (e.g. Forced To Transition).

Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
XFllo Since: Aug, 2012
2019-03-17 10:08:59

I think this draft is just too controversial and I'm not knowledgeable enough about the topic.

Glad to hear discarding it was an accident — it happened to me with one draft as well, so I totally understand. I thought I was tossing my bomb and I was actually discarding it.

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
2019-03-17 10:32:43

^ That's what happened to me as well :(

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
CryptidProductions Since: Mar, 2019
2019-03-17 17:02:32

Pretty much that.

In it's current state it's such a mess it's not really salvageable and just needs trashed and re-done from the ground up. There's a trope here somewhere but nothing with the current proposal is really workable because there's so many Unfortunate Implications in the tone and wording of it all.

Edited by CryptidProductions
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-03-17 20:08:21

Easier to polish a bad draft, then start a good draft than to deal with drive-by bombings from people that don't like the idea before the draft is in a state to be judged fairly.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
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