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12th Mar, 2019 06:15:25 PM

This is an unusual case, because it stems from a Wham Line in the previous episode, but the sheer number of reveals even in this episode alone make it qualify for the trope.

12th Mar, 2019 06:19:31 PM

^ The troper Twin Bird is apparently "backing off" from including it under Wham Episode, so I guess the "edit war" is over. My apologies for not noticing it sooner.

That said, that leaves the issue of whether the episode belongs on the page or not. I'm not familiar enough with RWBY to make a call on it, but it might have a justifiable place on the subpage regardless of whether Twin Bird is backing off from putting it there.

15th Mar, 2019 02:51:43 PM

The entry was added once (Twin Bird), removed by me once (for being The Reveal, not Wham Episode), and re-added once by Twin Bird. He PM'd me when he readded it. I replied to the PM, but didn't hear anything more, so I wasn't immediately aware that he had removed the entry. I had no plans to remove it myself, although I was debating whether to bring it up for discussion somewhere.

There's a lot of misuse with Wham. I think it's partly because of the name (something hits the audience with a 'wham' and they want the trope that has the name that fits how it felt, but the three tropes have a Non-Indicative Name on that score) and partly because people think Wham Episode and tropes such as The Reveal, Gut Punch, Cliffhanger, etc., are interchangeable when they're not. While The Reveal / Gut Punch / etc. can be a mechanism by which Wham tropes happen, they're not automatically going to lead to a Wham trope, and they're not the same thing as them either.

bwburke94's comment is a good example — the line from the previous episode isn't a Wham Line, it's the episode's Cliffhanger. The episode built right up to it then cut out right at the interesting bit — which makes people tune into the next episode ("The Lost Fable") to hear the story behind it. But it hits the audience. Wham. And therefore people go straight for tropes that use 'wham' in the name.

We've got a Trope Description Improvement Drive thread on the forums. Maybe the three Wham tropes need to visit there and see if they can be assessed and clarified?

Edited by Wyldchyld
15th Mar, 2019 04:32:47 PM

I would also argue that the episode counts as a Wham Episode, as its events (in the present-day context, not the flashback one) have a huge impact on the plot as a whole. Not only does the audience learn all this information, but the characters do as well, and that is the driving force behind their actions for the rest of Volume 6 (and presumably after that, though we can't speculate on that.)

15th Mar, 2019 05:23:38 PM

^^ Wham Episode is an episode that permanently changes the "status quo" of the series. As I've said, I haven't seen much of RWBY, and certainly not this episode. From what I've gathered, the episode has many revelations in it that affect how the show is viewed before and after, i.e. Rewatch Bonus, which counts as a change in status quo.

I can't speak for the episode itself, but I don't see anything on the page for Wham Episode (or Wham Line, for that matter) that states there can't be any Foreshadowing.

Edited by iamconstantine
15th Mar, 2019 10:48:34 PM

The information changes nothing, the characters continue on with their plans exactly as they were before they learned it, therefore it's not a Wham Episode.

The only Wham Episode RWBY has had is the Volume 3 finale, which had: two major character deaths, the rest of the cast being split up, the destruction of the setting of the first three volumes, and the disruption of worldwide communications.

Way bigger impact than "we know (some of) the villain's backstory now".

15th Mar, 2019 11:10:52 PM

I don't see anything on the page for Wham Episode (or Wham Line, for that matter) that states there can't be any Foreshadowing.

The last paragraph for Wham Line clearly states that the line must be a sudden reveal that the audience doesn't see coming. There can ge subtle implications leading up to it, but generally, it's supposed to be an unexpected twist that changes the course of the plot. Such as:

"I don't get it. Why are you helping that girl? She isn't even human, she's nothing but a doll. That body is made of what's left of the real [insert character name]!"

For the record, that's an actual quote, but I won't link to where it's from and omitted the character's name because it's one the best reveals I've seen in any series.

Edited by MiinU
16th Mar, 2019 07:15:01 AM

I see. My apologies, then. Thank you for informing me of this; my understanding of Wham Episode was incorrect. I agree with Wyldchyld that the Wham tropes might need some cleanup, since I can think of some episodes of other series that shouldn't be considered "Wham" anymore.