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GastonRabbit MOD (General of TV Troops)
2019-02-25 01:35:59

I personally think There Is No Such Thing as Notability makes awards irrelevant, at least on the main pages for works. Since awards are based on reception, items related to that might be YMMV instead of Trivia.

Edited by GastonRabbit I got a rock for Halloween.
jamespolk Since: Aug, 2012
2019-02-25 08:17:17

The front matter/introduction to a work is the first thing people read when they learn about it. General editing practice is to have an introduction where we say something about a work. I can't recall offhand seeing a work page that was nothing but a title and a list of tropes. Why is it wrong to mention awards won by a work? I haven't seen Green Book and I haven't even edited its page but it seems odd to make a rule saying we're not allowed to mention that Green Book won Best Picture.

MiinU Since: Jun, 2011
2019-02-25 08:35:16

^@jamespolk: Agreed.

Also, how is mentioning the awards a work either won, or was nominated for, YMMV when it's stating a point in fact? If it won, a quick online search should confirm it.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-02-25 08:59:53

The rules being discussed here can be found on How to Create a Work's Page.

  • Things not to include: value judgments (don't say how much it sucked/how awesome it was), critical reception (that's just a specific variant of value judgments), recommendations (don't tell us whether or not we should check it out), plot spoilers.
Awards are not facts from within the work itself, they're facts from the audience reception of the work. Sometimes these reactions are used as advertising for the work "winner of the Golden globe", or "nominated for Best actor". Even if we follow the rules and eliminate that information from the description, making "advertising the awards" a trope is probably the correct thing to do.
We are unusual for a media wiki in forbidding mention of critical reception. I'm not sure we should be, but overloading descriptions with twenty different rating sites is also a bad idea.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
CrypticMirror Since: Jan, 2001
2019-02-25 09:55:37

I would think mentioning an award in the works description above the line would be fine, surely, but not in the tropes list?

jamespolk Since: Aug, 2012
2019-02-25 10:09:05

^No, that's the thing, by TV Tropes doctrine we are not allowed to mention any awards in the work description, nowhere on the main page.

CrypticMirror Since: Jan, 2001
2019-02-25 10:41:36

Uh, well I retract my reply then. Oops.

I guess I can see the point, make an exception for the Oscars and then someone will argue for Golden Globes and Baftas, and then eventually we're going to be arguing whether Gary's House of Stuff's Best Tap Dancing in a Marionette Show Based on an Anime Based on a Babylonian Text Award of the Month, or worse, is notable enough. Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things is a thing, I suppose.

Edited by CrypticMirror
jamespolk Since: Aug, 2012
2019-02-25 10:58:21

^This is probably the theory, but it's admitting that we are worse than Wikipedia as they are capable of mentioning in the front matter that Green Book won best picture at the Oscars without overloading that front matter with, say, Random You Tuber's Top Ten of 2019 film awards.

mahidevrans Since: Mar, 2018
2019-02-25 12:21:16

If there's any TVT policy I'd want to challenge, this one might take the cake. I understand the intention is to prevent Natter but if a work is a major award winner, influential on the genre, or significantly controversial (to name a few examples) — these things are worth mentioning, even if further details are relegated to Trivia or Analysis.

Some pages do make mention of such things already, but it isn't kosher to do so.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2019-02-25 12:24:58

^^ They have a system of notability, but that's why I mentioned when the work itself advertises the awards won. Random YouTuber generally won't be listed on the cover of a re-release, but the Oscars generally are.


VV not what I was saying at all. We don't have a system of notability and we don't need one.

Edited by crazysamaritan Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
XFllo Since: Aug, 2012
2019-02-25 13:16:11

^^ mahidevrans, I second this.

jamespolk Since: Aug, 2012
2019-02-25 17:09:53

^^Indeed. Oscars. Emmys. Grammys. Tonys. Pulitzers. Palme d'Or. This seems like something we could and should trust ourselves to do; we can list the awards that people recognize as notable without mentioning the Teen Choice Awards or Random Internet Goof's Movie Awards.

Mickoonsley19 Since: Feb, 2018
2019-02-25 17:19:06

If a random goof's Video Review Show mentions a work, that can still go on the Trivia page under Referenced by….

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2019-02-26 06:28:21

The general rule is that the above-the-line description of a work is for describing the work, not listing all its awards or what its ranking on the Billboard 100 is or anything like that. I've seen work articles where half of the description is taken up by listing box office receipts and award nominations.

If people want that information, they can go to Wikipedia or IMDB. We're about tropes. That said, we can briefly discuss a work's cultural significance in the description, but this really needs to be just the most important stuff and not a highlight reel. For example, Black Panther being the first superhero film to win three Academy Awards is probably worth mentioning, but the details can be kept in Trivia.

Tropes. We care about the tropes. Keep that in mind and most of the rest follows naturally.

Also, jamespolk, I'm officially done with your backseat modding. You're banned.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
mahidevrans Since: Mar, 2018
2019-02-26 08:07:50

Thanks for the clarification Fighteer — that's certainly a reasonable guideline to follow. Good to know.

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
2019-02-27 06:32:03

Still, awards aren't everything. Off the top of my head, The Shawshank Redemption was nominated for several awards back in the day (Palm d'Or, Academy Awards, etc) but didn't win any of them. It's still considered one of the —if not the— best movies of all time.

My point is that for any award-winning film adored by audiences, there's at least two award-winners that have been forgotten in the fog of time, and several films that have no awards or even nominations that are beloved by audiences and critics alike.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2019-02-27 08:50:34

And dwelling on the awards for whole paragraphs misses the point of the article description.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
mahidevrans Since: Mar, 2018
2019-02-27 09:08:56

^ That's what I had thought, ROCEJ and all — If there's something worth mentioning that isn't inside the work itself, a brief sentence or two with "see trivia/analysis for additional details" should suffice. It should be a footnote if anything to the actual description.

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