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for ongoing cleanup projects.
I don't think they should have examples removed. There are plenty of works without a Big Bad or Shout Outs.
Keet cleanup
Over 40,000 wicks qualifies them on Overdosed Tropes. Omnipresent Trope would mean that Big Bad happens as often as The Antagonist.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Shout-Out is clearly not omnipresent.
One could probably make a case however that Big Bad is basically the same thing as The Antagonist.
^ Um, no. Big Bad is the villain that creates the problems the heroes must solve. The Antagonist is just someone who gets in the way of the heroes. The difference is that Antagonists can come in all varieties and have any level of effect on the plot.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Big Bad is definitely not omnipresent.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
^^Seems like a distinction without a difference. The first sentence of the description for Big Bad,
could easily be the laconic for The Antagonist.
All Big Bads are antagonists, but not all antagonists are the Big Bad. Mooks and other Evil Minions are antagonists without being the Big Bad. A Monster of the Week is an antagonist without being the Big Bad.
We've been doing a fair amount of talking about these sorts of sub/supertrope relationships over at the Big Bad Cleanup Project
thread.
In addition to Mooks, there's characters like the Alpha Bitch (who is only occasionally the plot's main antagonist and is usually just an annoyance), the Quirky Miniboss Squad, those Forced into Evil, characters on the other side of Gray-and-Gray Morality from the heroes, The Rival sometimes acts as an antagonist, etc.
The Antagonist is not the direct cause of all bad happenings. They are only a character that somehow stands in the way of the protagonist achieving their goal. That's it.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Seconding that
Big Bad and Bigger Bad are specific sub-tropes of The Antagonist trope for the villains that are at the top of the food chain and responsible for the entire conflict of the story arc.
Like Lucifer in the original 5 Seasons of Supernatural since he was pulling the strings the whole time to lead hell to freeing him so he could start the end of days.
Plus, there're Villain Protagonist and Hero Antagonist.
Are Big Bad and Shout-Out sufficiently occurring to be Omnipresent Tropes?
They both have over 40,000 wicks...
Edited by Malady