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sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
14th Oct, 2018 11:39:23 AM

Are we doing that? Because my understanding, based on past experience and the Is This an Example thread is that the above is misuse.

My understanding of he trope is when a work flops and that failure can be linked to something about the premise turning off people who might have otherwise been interested.

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
14th Oct, 2018 12:06:11 PM

I alsways thought it meant just weird or hard to accept concept.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
14th Oct, 2018 12:33:31 PM

The thing is that a weird premise wouldn't necessarily alienate the audience. Hence my understanding that the work also has to fail because of it.

nombretomado (Season 1)
14th Oct, 2018 12:35:51 PM

OP, where are you getting that impression? I think a source would help a lot here.

KamonTheSkunk Since: Jul, 2016
14th Oct, 2018 01:10:01 PM

Look right on the page

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AudienceAlienatingPremise

I was browsing The Lion King 2019 page and I saw the trope removed. The most recent edit:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheLionKing2019

I saw that it was another mod, Fighteer that added it to the main page.

Edited by KamonTheSkunk
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
14th Oct, 2018 05:41:35 PM

That has nothing to do with "failing to meet expectations", it's for when the work can't get any hype to begin with because of the off-putting premise.

Current Project: The Team
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
15th Oct, 2018 10:50:11 AM

Do you have examples of this misuse?

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
15th Oct, 2018 11:09:55 AM

"People don't like this work's premise" is a completely useless trope. It carries no empirical value whatsoever. Audience-Alienating Premise can only apply if a work fails to achieve its intended results and it can be shown that this is because people didn't buy it because they didn't understand or were turned off by the concept.

Otherwise it's just people wanking their hate-boners all over the YMMV subpage. In fact, we are on the verge of proscribing all YMMV examples for unreleased works on the premise that it's wankery.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
15th Oct, 2018 04:59:17 PM

We already have a similar rule for Speculative Troping. A requirement that six months pass to observe any subjective reactions would probably be included on that page.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Zuxtron (On A Trope Odyssey)
15th Oct, 2018 06:17:55 PM

Isn't an Audience-Alienating Premise when a work fails to appeal to its targeted niche? The way the page is written right now makes it sound like it's about any work that doesn't appeal to a mainstream general audience. The page gives works featuring fanservice based on incest as an example of something that may cause this reaction, but if you find incest repulsive, you're clearly not part of the intended audience and therefore the fact that the premise alienates you is irrelevant.

Now, if the work did feature lots of incest-based fanservice, but ends up as a deconstruction of the subject (for example, the main character knocks up his sister and the resulting child ends up deformed), it would qualify as an AAP since the intended audience (people who find incest sexy) would be put off by how the relationship is presented negatively.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
15th Oct, 2018 06:43:12 PM

Isn't an Audience-Alienating Premise when a work fails to appeal to its targeted niche?
That's my understanding as well. It was recently discussed in the "Is this an example?" thread, where ~Fighteer was saying the same thing they said here.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
15th Oct, 2018 10:29:47 PM

I'm starting to think Audience-Alienating Premise needs to be sent to the repair shop.

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lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
15th Oct, 2018 11:17:23 PM

My understanding of the trope was 'critics and audiences alike were alienated,' such as Yu-Gi-Oh! The Movie: Pyramid of Light getting savaged by critics, who couldn't understand it without having watched the show and saw it as a 90-minute commercial for cards, and disliked by most fans for having a Generic Doomsday Villain and not adding anything interesting to the series. (I love the movie, though XD) Another example would be The Emoji Movie, which had among many other common complaints that nobody wanted a movie about emojis and it was impossible to create a 'hook' to get people to want to see it instead of watching it to snark at it.

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crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
16th Oct, 2018 05:51:38 AM

having a Generic Doomsday Villain
That's execution, not premise. The premise was essentially "a 90-minute commercial for [toys]", which has been effectivly executed. (Edit: Although perhaps not by this film.)
nobody wanted a movie about emojis and it was impossible to create a 'hook' to get people to want to see it instead of watching it to snark at it
That's a failed premise.

Edited by crazysamaritan Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Reymma Since: Feb, 2015
16th Oct, 2018 02:38:11 PM

I think the article would make sense if it was restricted to commercial works going for a mainstream audience. If it's a case of Doing It for the Art, it doesn't apply (though it does if there are producers backing it). If it's going for a niche audience (like most manga and HBO series) and fails to appeal to them, it's about execution. If it's appealing to different demographics and fails to capture any, it's Uncertain Audience. On these grounds, maybe we should restrict it to A-list films, AAA games, prime-time television and maybe circus acts.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
16th Oct, 2018 04:23:03 PM

Circus acts?

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AegisP Since: Oct, 2014
16th Oct, 2018 07:52:22 PM

For animal cruelty and so on.

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WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
16th Oct, 2018 08:27:38 PM

I don't see the point of restricting it to main-stream works, though restricting it to commercial failures is important. Basically, a niche work can fail just as badly as a mainstream work relative to the other works of the niche genre, and that failure can be for it's premise. A work marketed specifically to teenage polka fans for example isn't likely to be a success if the work is about a middle-aged person trying to abolish polka music, because the premise doesn't work. What might be needed is a citation to establish that the failure of the work was due to the premise.

That said, this isn't quite relevant to the OP's query, which is about the idea that Audience-Alienating Premise is the new Hype Backlash, which isn't true.

Current Project: The Team
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
16th Oct, 2018 11:32:12 PM

Um, why is this discussion here?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NKgamer Since: Jan, 2001
16th Oct, 2018 11:50:31 PM

Apparently because people are still confused on what even the trope IS! Some apparently think it's when a movie fails to reach it's target audience when in reality from what I read it's when a movie can't reach an audience AT ALL! Honestly I don't know where they're getting that.

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
17th Oct, 2018 02:25:59 AM

Perhaps this should be closed and moved to Trope Talk?

Edited by Arivne
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