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It's functionally just a list of redirects to the work's subpages. I say cut it entirely.

The thing is, these originally were all listed on the Characters subpage. At some point however, they were moved to the Recap subpage instead. I believe it was because more people were adding SC Ps that weren't really characters in the traditional sense, so they were all moved to the Recap page as a compromise. I don't see any reason they need to be cut. They still list specific tropes that apply to each SCP, although maybe a brief summary of what each SCP is would be helpful.

Isn't the majority of the site comprised of character sheets? Nearly every entry has a plot related to that specific SCP, and so recaps about what happens on that specific page would make sense. I'm not sure if the Recap/ namespace is the best place for that information, but I do think it makes sense.

That said, the SCP Foundation/ namespace seems to be completely wrong. I thought the namespace clean-up effort was trying to avoid work-specific namespaces?

>They still list specific tropes that apply to each SCP

The SCP Foundation/ subpages do, yes. But Recap.SCP Foundation is a list of links to pages in the Recap/ namespace — all of which just redirect to the SCP Foundation/ subpages. Except the ones that are redlinks.

Oh also

> I thought the namespace clean-up effort was trying to avoid work-specific namespaces?

I was under the impression that using the work name as a namespace was the standard thing to do when a work's main page needs to be split. Like Undertale.Tropes A To G, for a random example I happen to have at hand.

Has this been changed?

From the first post for the Wiki Development Project thread: "What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)? We want to clean those up."

My understanding is that SCPFoundation/ is a worse choice than putting that information in Recap/.

I'd say turn it into the same vein as the 'Simple SCP' spinoff that condenses what's going on with each SCP.

I believe it was because more people were adding SCPs that weren't really characters in the traditional sense

It's worse than that. People simply troping completely different character from the header. For a hyperbole analog, imagine reading character sheet about Batman but most of them is actually about how The Joker act in the same story while Batman being somewhere in the background. Plus, we actually have rule that plot tropes go to work page or Recap, and people seem to disappoint that they cannot add Wham Line example to an Eldritch Abomination (and the line is said by someone else).

I would like to guess that they move all to SCPFoundation/ namespace since technically all SCPs are articles and stories that being in the same share universe and many characters only appear in one story. Too bad, they still fail to restrict themselves to troping that specific story. As of now, it look like the namespace is just excuse to put everything in one spot.

I'm completely agree about moving them back to proper namespace.

Gah, this is a mess. SCP Foundation is essentially a loose collection of OCs, fan fiction, and original fiction, each of which is created to be as troperriffic as possible. In an ideal world, we'd use Characters subpages to collect tropes about each SCP and Recap to collect tropes about what happens in the stories featuring them. This way we don't need an SCPFoundation namespace, which is something we're trying to move away from eventually.

The problem, as it always is with narrow, yet hyper-enthusiastic participatory fandoms, is that there's a self-reinforcing drive to add as much information in as many places as possible. This is natural: people enjoy these things and want to share them. However, it can cause the articles to metastasize and spread across the wiki like a cancer. The Pantheon suffers many of the same problems.

For the sake of everyone's sanity, these projects should be set up in a well-defined structure and kept in that structure.

Example: SCPFoundation.SCP Foundation SC Ps 001 To 299. This is an unnecessary and redundant use of namespaces. It can just as easily be in Characters.SCP Foundation SC Ps 001 To 299.

For an example of problematic entry, please see entry SCP-3001 - Red Reality in SCP Foundation SC Ps 3000 To 3999.

You should notice that despite being call Red Reality, only two tropes are about the place itself. Most of the tropes are actually about another character, Robert Scranton.

Which is misuse, as noted already.

So I guess that we should...

• Bring back both Recap/ and Characters/ namespace.
• Move examples from SCPFoundation/ to where they belong. For example, that SCP-3001 - Red Reality should has all examples about Robert Scranton listed under Robert Scranton's folder in Characters.SCP Foundation The Foundation, while the the tropes about the place itself and narrative tropes should be moved to Recap.
• Once all of that is done, SCPFoundation/ namespace should be cut.

I will send PM to Wuz (one who creat SCPFoundation/ namespace) to join this discussion.

I created the SCP Foundation namespace to integrate the separation with Recap and Characters. The core of the problem is that not all SC Ps are characters. SC Ps can be places, events, phenomena, in addition to animals, people, and monsters. But that's just considering in-universe. Out-universe, SC Ps are pieces of writing. They're works, comics, audio-based pieces of fiction in experimental formats with many many tropes used in their creation, detailing an anomalous place, event, animal, person, yadda yadda. Splitting the two sides will result in unwanted confusion, which would cause even more problems - imagine an SCP about a character that edits its own file page, changing its recovery log. If it's split, we would need one entry on the Character namespace for the character's personality and powers, and one entry on the Recap namespace discussing how the file page was changed and the events of the recovery log. Suppose that I, a brand-new editor wanting to contribute a new trope, where should I add my new trope?

In addition, I also object to using the Recap namespace because doing so would impose the needless limit of no spoilers on the page - something which I'm very sure would be reinforced very rigorously with our TV Tropes SCP Foundation editors, given my past experiences. This needlessly complicates the situation and spills the beans on thousands of spoilers even if a reader just wants to read a bit of recap on article #456. It would also mean that we also have to actually "recap" all the SC Ps, quite a daunting task.

I do not support this decision.

I honestly think you are overthinking this.

We are not an extension of that wiki, and so we do not need to list all of the SCP articles in one place. The creatures that are characters should go in the Characters/ namespace, and those that are not should not go in that namespace on principle. It would be much more confusing to have non-character SCPs listed in the Characters/ namespace — and the character SCPs listed off the Characters/ namespace — than it would be to separate the SCPs into the appropriate namespaces.

And regarding the creature that edits its own article, the appropriate tropes could all be grouped together in the Characters/ namespace, since it's a character and its changes would serve to characterize it in particular ways.

Moreover, if someone wants to look through a work's recap page, then being spoiled in on them. All we can do is put a spoiler warning at the top of the recap page. There's no reason for us to mother them about it.

^ Agreed. TV Tropes is not an extension of the SCP Foundation wiki and should not be treated as such. Indeed, I think we may need to pare it down to just tropes commonly found in the works on that site. Listing every single SCP and every single work written about that SCP is insane.

Should a Sandbox be created to fix things?

I think so.

Well, I guess that we need short term project thread at least?

For now, I will start with that Red Reality by moving everything about Robert Scranton to Characters.SCP Foundation The Foundation and everything else to work page tropes list.

Bump. Since people still add new examples to SCPFoundation/ I think we need a short term project and lock pages in that namespace.

My advice: Add them to the cutlist in the meantime and PM people to stop making pages in that namespace. If they have questions send them here.

Thank you for advice, I guess that Recap/ can go too since none of the example is actual recapping of events?

Although I have a question before add them to cut list. How to edit a redirect page? I would like to move some good characters to proper namespace first.

I'll add all pages under SCPFoundation/ and Recap/ namespace to cut list after post this message.

Edit: Figured, I will dump info on character sheets for now. Would move non-character tropes to work page later.

^ I assume you edited after you sent the PMs? 'Cause yeah, information loss was my only concern.

If any pages are going to be cut please make sure you move the information on them to somewhere else.

I was originally the one who split the SCP pages into characters and recaps because a lot of the SC Ps on the character page were not really characters. Somebody else later merged them together and put them in a new namespace because they felt that character and non character SC Ps should not be separated.

I think that so that this doesn’t happen again we should agree on a new place to put all of them.

I am busy with something right now so I don’t have time to talk about this but I think I may have some ideas for where to put them.

Actually I think I know where to put all of them. Please don’t delete or move anything else. I will explain it later.

Well, the deletion is up to our cut master...

As noted, I've put all content to character sheet and now (slowly) moving stuff not belong to character sheet (such as narrative tropes) to the work pages.

I think that so that this doesn’t happen again we should agree on a new place to put all of them.

As discussed above, we aren't suppose to put all of them in one place. The real problem isn't how some SCPs aren't character, they can stay on character sheet if they standout enough to be troped like a character. The real problem is how people try to add narrative tropes (like Wham Line) or troping different character instead of object itself (when you think about it, this implies that the object itself isn't standout enough).

Also, Recap/ need to be recapping of events. We did it wrong for just list tropes, my bad.

I've declined the cut request for now until the information has been moved.

I already copied all info to Characters.SCP Foundation (I don't blank pages under the SCPFoundation/ namespace though).

OK, here is my idea. I think that the Character pages should be reserved for SCPs that frequently appear on other pages besides their own SCP document. Even if the SCP is a character, it should not be listed if it does not have any significance to the SCP universe outside of it's own SCP page.

Recap pages should be reserved for SCPs pages that actually tell a story. The recap should be an actual recap of the SCP an not just a list of tropes used in the SCP.

We should move the lists of tropes for SCPs that don't belong on Recap or Characters to a new namespace. It should look something like this:

SCPFoundation/SCPSeriesI SCPFoundation/SCPSeriesII SCPFoundation/SCPSeriesIII SCPFoundation/SCPSeriesIV SCPFoundation/SCPSeriesV SCPFoundation/GOIFormats SCPFoundation/JokeSCPs

The problem is that SCPFoundation/ isn't a valid namespace.

This thread is getting to be pretty long for ATT. You might consider moving this cleanup project to the forums to have an easier time organizing what to do and how to do it (and to get help from other tropers).

Yes, move it to the Wiki Talk forum, please. If it needs to be moved to Short Term Projects later we can arrange this. Locking.