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Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2018-01-08 20:41:34

Basically, something that says that if it's the equivalent of an Appearance Trope ("has red hair and eyes"), it's not a trope?

Maybe a reminder to these tropers that a trope is a story-telling device -it's not something that just happens, it's something that happens with a meaning within the story?

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
DragonQuestZ Since: Jan, 2001
2018-01-08 23:10:22

^ Adding to that, even something like lots of sparkles is there to add a visual flair to the scene, often to draw the audience's attention on what is sparkling.

And People Sit on Chairs says that a trope has to have meaning. Without meaning, the frequency is irrelevant.

Even Tropes in Aggregate is because the meaning of those tropes usually causes them to happen so much.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2018-01-09 01:54:19

This isn't a good idea. Not only is the "non-binary" trope probably a trope - that nonbinary characters are common now does not entail that they weren't a trope in the past when they were more unusual - but there is no reason for having a page dedicated to it. The two typical reasons why an uncommon thing is not a trope are PSOC and Too Rare To Trope, we don't have or need extra specifications.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
lakingsif Since: Dec, 2012
2018-01-09 03:15:13

^ respectfully, that draft is simply just "This Work Has A Non-Binary Character", not even "This Work Is Being Progressive By Including A Non-Binary Character". And the OP argued that since male/female characters are more common, the mere presence is a trope. Which it's not. There are more male characters than female, but nobody would think to make a trope that is just "This Work Has A Female Character" — the OP scoooool also suggested I was transphobic for saying it needed more to be a trope, which I think is ridiculous and some sort of guilt-shame pandering.

Edited by lakingsif OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
lakingsif Since: Dec, 2012
2018-01-09 03:47:18

Have found that PSOC does include the passage:

a trope suggestion can still be guilty of People Sit On Chairs even if it doesn't literally appear all the time. Even if it is relatively rare, it can still be used without a narrative purpose. For example, there may be only three works of fiction in which a person walks down a street called Jameson Street, but unless that name has some relevance to the storytelling beyond just being a street name, it is People Sit On Chairs

Perhaps this could be made more prominent so people read it, rather than just the parts further up about "It doesn't matter how commonly it occurs" and assume that PSOC is shorthand for that.

Edited by lakingsif OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2018-01-09 03:58:39

I'd say, if nothing else happens, that person needs a comment/message that tropes have effects on the story -they aren't just "this character is X" or "this event happens."

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
lakingsif Since: Dec, 2012
2018-01-09 04:38:37

^ it's been explained to them in the draft comments. They have responded with: "I could retool the article to "Token They" since non binary characters are usually peripheral characters but i refuse to do so on principle." (Token They as in Token Minority) That's just being a childish dick. They are saying since they've been told to do it, they're not going to.

OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2018-01-09 05:29:37

If that's the case, I don't think an administrivia page would help. They would just choose to ignore it, out of principle.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
2018-01-09 05:48:00

My issue with a lot of these non-trope TL Ps is that, based on how limited the description, "Character X is Y" is, strictly speaking, sufficient context for the description which indicates to me it's not a trope in of itself.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2018-01-09 06:50:47

[nevermind]

Edited by GnomeTitan
Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2018-01-10 06:57:38

@lakingsif: That has a definite ring of "I don't wanna" brattiness to it.

And yep, that kind of attitude completely ignores established rules and guidelines. So a new Administrivia page is useless.

Which makes this an active bad behavior issue.

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
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