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Gideoncrawle Since: Dec, 2012
2017-10-26 20:32:18

Both examples sound like misuse. Critical Research Failure describes errors that are immediately obvious to people with even cursory knowledge of the subject. The rules in question appear to fall under "finer points" rather than "fundamental properties", and that doesn't qualify as Critical Research Failure.

That said, if the examples are factually accurate (which I don't know the source material well enough to ascertain) they could probably be reworked into a valid example of Dan Browned, which isn't YMMV.

Bigotry in the name of inclusion is still bigotry.
TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2017-10-26 21:27:38

Maedar would simply try prompting that to be removed, too, if re-worked. He has never taken lightly to anyone criticizing his works.

The source material in this case come from the yugioh card game; anyone who plays it even causally would be familiar with at least the first example. More skilled players would be familiar with the second one.

Also, Sanokal, natter is when a troper makes an edit to reply to an edit above it. That is not the case there.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
2017-10-26 21:48:21

At the very least, they could be more neutral. Example:

  • In the duel between Andy and Vladimir, Vladimir has Steelswarm Roach on the field. Vladimir says Roach can negate any of Andy's level 5 or higher special summons. However, Andy relies mostly on fusion summon, which almost always requires a card's activation that starts a chain to pull off. A card or effect cannot activate while another card or effect is resolving and summon negation must happen exactly when the summon happens. By the time Roach could activate its effect, the monster is already on the field and thus could not be negated.
  • The card "Queen's Machine" is used by Poison against Andy. One of its effects prevents Andy's machines from attacking his. In the story proper, Andy's monsters were able to attack Poison directly. Unless a card that prevents your monsters from specifically being attacked says otherwise or allows for direct attacks, in this situation Andy would be unable to attack period since Poison still has monsters on the field which his card dictates cannot be attacked by the opponent's monsters.

Just FYI, I have only the barest understanding of how this game works, so if I screwed up something in the rewrite, my bad.

Edited by TheRoguePenguin
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2017-10-27 05:14:32

If Maedar is contesting examples on articles for his works by proxy, then I think we can safely ignore him. He's banned for a very good reason.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2017-10-27 05:44:05

Should we tell Sanokal the reason for Maedar's ban? Maedar won't reveal it, nor will he stop trying to get people to edit on his behalf. The real reason for his ban could help discourage them helping him ban evade.

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2017-10-27 06:03:52

Well, it's pretty simple, and should be obvious from the context. Maedar has a serious ownership issue over his fanfics and kept trying to delete criticism of them on the wiki. When confronted over it, he got abusively rude, and so we were forced to ban him. Then he ban evaded.

So, here's the ultimatum: Either he stops trying to tell us how to portray his works, or we will delete and lock all articles related to them. That's it. I'm sick of this.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2017-10-27 07:28:17

Side note: The Nerf Guy, Natter is also when additional material is added to an example that isn't necessary to explain either the event in the work or how the trope is used. Basically, unnecessary extra material, particularly to excess.

An example doesn't have to be bare bones, but it also doesn't need a bunch of extra sentences explaining stuff only tangentially related to the example, commenting, complaining/gushing, etc.

Sanokal, good job bringing Maedar's request here.

Edited by Candi Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2017-10-27 08:14:54

^Are you sure about that? Because I'm not finding what you're saying in Admininstrivia.Conversation In The Main Page. Regardless, Maedar is still trying to get people to edit on his behalf. We shouldn't encourage them to meatpuppet for him.

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2017-10-27 08:20:56

Let's get a list of all articles for his fics. The mods will review them to see what needs to be done.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LB7979 Since: Mar, 2016
2017-10-27 08:28:00

^ Well, Candi refers to it as "Natter" above, and it can fall under that; more strictly speaking, it falls under Brevity Is Wit, and possibly Word Cruft. Whatever you call it, the point (as stated in How To Write An Example) is, keep entries to the point and concise.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2017-10-27 08:57:43

" The source material in this case come from the yugioh card game; anyone who plays it even causally would be familiar with at least the first example. More skilled players would be familiar with the second one."

First, as a 'Yu-gi-oh'' fanfiction, they play Duel Monsters, not the card game published in the real world. Secondly, "A card or effect cannot activate while another card or effect is resolving" is a not basic information obvious to everyone.

Critical research failure is more than just "this is wrong".

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
2017-10-27 09:00:00

As someone who knows nothing about Yu Gi Oh, I would say neither entry is Critical Research Failure.

TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2017-10-27 09:04:25

[ETA] I would like to point out that the nature of the query has changed considerably since it was asked. This isn't about Critical Research Failure anymore. It's about Maedar encouraging users to edit on his behalf.

Edited by TheNerfGuy
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2017-10-27 10:56:16

The question that occurs to me re: cutting and locking is whether maedar wants his works on tv Tropes or not. We've seen fic writers blank or attempt to cut their fics before.

The context suggests yes he does if he's going this far. But it was something that struck me as worth mentioning nonetheless, if only to prevent getting rid of the pages bring an Unishment.

Edited by sgamer82
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2017-10-27 11:14:27

All of Maedar's work articles and subpages are now locked. We'll consider whether to purge them at another time. Edit: Locked Pages is updated.

Since they are locked, there is no longer a point in removing that Critical Research Failure entry, so unless anyone has anything else to add, I'll lock this query.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2017-10-27 11:18:27

I do believe we should cut YMMV.Shadowchasers Soulscape since its only entry was made by Maedar's Lady Jane Grey account. Since he is the author, that edit is invalid since authors aren't allowed to add YMM Vs.

Sanokal Since: Jun, 2013
2017-10-27 15:41:39

@The Nerf Guy: You already did, and it doesn't, the site's rules do. Hence why, as I said, I brought it here instead of editing. @Fighteer: Actually, that would be great, sorting all that stuff out now rather than this happening again, because this isn't a position that I like. I don't want to break the rules, and won't knowingly (and hopefully won't unknowingly), but I can't in god conscience let someone be a jerk, which was my issue with the page. As I said, Nerf's basic facts were technically right, it was the whole taking shots at the author rubbish on top of it that I felt was unwarranted.

TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2017-10-27 22:05:17

^Maedar has displayed time and again his own jerkass attitude, yet you seem to focus on the people he hates. Are you trying to say that you'll give his jerkassery a free pass in good conscience?

Sanokal Since: Jun, 2013
2017-10-28 00:41:06

No. You'll notice I'm not trying to get him back on the site or anything like that (and I haven't really seen evidence of that, which isn't the point.)

Besides, you're ignoring the issue here; you're being a jerk. Regardless of whether or not he is, you are behaving like a numpty, and I know full well from seeing some of the other issues here that you can have your head screwed on properly.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2017-10-28 03:21:54

Nerf Guy, in practice, Natter is used for most extraneous information added to an example. It's the same Administrivia doesn't list everything we run into from time to time, a product of available time and labor, or lack thereof, and not wanting the Administrivia pages to start approaching the US tax code for complexity.

Also, you are coming across as crabby. Being negative because of another troper/extroper 'starting it' is not a defense here. Comment all you want in your head, make Sim characters or put thinly veiled versions as mooks in stories if you like. Just please be careful what you put on the screen.

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
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