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JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
2017-10-11 18:33:04

I think they refer to two entirely different things...I will say that Orwellian Retcon as the trope is written is incredibly vague and weird. What it should refer to is changes of content and alterations based on censorship, and moral views.

The other version, George Lucas Altered Version is changes based on aesthetic and artistic criteria, and it's entirely about aesthetics, and quite specific and clear in context. There's nothing about moral or political censorship in the case of Lucas-style changes.

So to me keeping it separate works. And in any case, Lucas hasn't actually gone back and altered the original Star Wars film. Prints of that version still exist and Lucas hasn't say gone out of his way to destroy those versions (the way Old Hollywood used to destroy the original prints of films which they remake, be it American or international films, a famous example is the British original of Gaslight). All Lucas has done is refuse to release it on Home Video or re-release it which is his prerogative.

I will also admit that I am biased, I am generally on Lucas' side about these revisions. Fundamentally, Star Wars is about visual spectacle, and if you are Lucas and have the money, time, and resources (which almost no director ever has) why not tinker it for later releases so that new audiences can engage with a "old" movie in a proper way. This is always a blurry issue I admit, but unlike say Charlie Chaplin's sound version of The Gold Rush until the home video release the only widely circulated version, this isn't really changing the film a great deal.

EDIT: I mean this isn't exceptional just to film you know. Henry James rewrote parts and the end of The Portrait of a Lady, Charles Dickens did the same for Great Expectations....

Edited by JulianLapostat
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2017-10-11 23:13:01

The trope description for Orwellian Retcon is a bit vague and should probable be rewritten for clarity. It actually doesn't seem to be about changes with an agenda or about morality (although that's what the trope name implies).

It also says that it can lead to a George Lucas Altered Version. I suppose that means that the OR is the process, and the GLAV is a possible end result. GLAV seems to hinge on inserting new footage or using technology that wasn't available for the making of the original, while OR is just about editing the original, which just makes it sound more like GLAV is a subtrope rather than the process/product distinction in the OW description.

Edited by GnomeTitan
PistolsAtDawn Since: Oct, 2013
2017-10-12 04:39:58

I think they are related, but there are circumstances where one applies but not the other.

Example-

i agree this could be cleared up on the pages themselves

Edited by PistolsAtDawn
Derkhan Since: Nov, 2012
2017-10-12 06:18:27

Reading through the examples in Orwellian Retcon, I feel like there are two tropes squished into one, which may be contributing to the confusion about what the tropes is about. There are examples which have been edited due to external circumstances (moral guardians, science marching on, morals changing over time, and so on) and examples where the origiinal work was edited due to internal reasons (mostly better continuity with later sequels, like characters' names or ages in sequels not aligning with the original work). Both are listed on the same page and neither kind of examples fits George Lucas Altered Version either.

GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2017-10-12 07:02:57

The name Orwellian Retcon implies, at least to me, some sort of agenda behind the editing: either a political one (Trotsky being edited out of photos of Lenin), a moral-guardian one (cigarettes being edited out of illustrations for children's books) or perhaps embarrasment on the part of the creators ("Han doesn't shoot first! Let's forget he ever did!"). But the trope description is much more neutral. Is this confusing?

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