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I'd say that the Super-trope structure in this case is that PCC is the Supertrope and the Red, Blue and Yellow specific tropes are subtropes. Without looking att he TLP in question, I also speculate that the its description was copypasted from Red Is Heroic's description with a certain keyword is changed so I 'm gonna check if that is the case.
EDIT: its not a 1:1 copy, but it is very derivative of Red's description. Also, the TLP link
You know, I'm going to have to say that those all need to be run through the appearance tropes cleanup topic, because they are just begging for rampant ZCE abuse. "Hero is in red? Yay, done. Now I can practice not thinking by writing up 'examples' for every time a female characters wears a dress. Oh, look, here's my lead paint snack."
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Other relevant YKTTW drafts: Yellow For Evil and Blue Is Sinister.
We talked a bit in YFE about the YIH trope.
I think they're "doable" so to speak, but I realize that the colors would actually need to mean something about the character rather than just "Character wears a yellow dress." (For example, Yellow For Evil right now is when the yellow represents fear or madness or signals that the character has something to do with fear or madness. That is, its description is not just "character wears yellow.")
Buuuuuuuuuuut... take these to the appearance trope cleanup thread or what do next?
Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
I would discard all those TLP proposals, flat out. Just nuke them with prejudice.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I definitely know that, years back, there was a YKTTW for Orange Is Heroic and I basically complained that we were basically going to have a "heroic" trope for almost every color.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Yes, somebody is making TLP drafts for all colors and all alignments. It negates any of them being tropes, saying that any color can mean anything.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
And find whoever that is and take them off their diet of lead paint chips.
Would one of you please link to one or more of these TLP proposals so we can check them?
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Yellow For Evil, Yellow Is Heroic, Blue Is Sinister are the current ones. The troper is Erebus Elysium.
Basara-kun also made the page Red Is Violent in December. That seems like it's trying to be the opposite to Red Is Heroic, even though there are other tropes about an evil or dangerous red appearance.
Edited by lakingsif OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Nuked all three, suspended the troper. Red Is Violent should be taken to the appearance cleanup topic, and preferably shot.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
There's also Villainous Vermilion, the laconic of which states "Villains like to wear red."
FWIW, I deleted a bunch of Blue Is Heroic examples off of the Overwatch character pages for pointing out that one of a character's skins is blue... when that character has several skins of different colors, meaning that the fact that one of them just happens to be blue has no narrative significance to speak of. I didn't realize that it was part of a larger pattern of ZCE-bait color tropes.
Fighteer, thanks for heading off the hero/villain rainbow being built up there. I thought the troper's reasoning for Yellow Is Heroic (stated in the Yellow For Evil discussion) was questionable, but I hadn't even noticed a couple of the others.
But on the original topic, does my understanding of Super-Trope seem to be correct? I.e., there can be multiple Sub Tropes for one Super-Trope, which are more specific variants of the Super-Trope, but a given Sub-Trope cannot have multiple independent Super Tropes?
Yellow For Evil wasn't just "color + villain" and we already have plenty of other tropes that consist of "color represents or signals X about character," which is tropeable (as opposed to just "character has X-color as a part of their costume." See also Sickly Green Glow, Evil Wears Black, Green and Mean, and Gold and White Are Divine. I honestly wasn't expecting a unilateral "kill it with fire without any thought because it has to do with colors" mod fiat was about to come down, but it sounds like Villainous Vermilion also gets the pre-nuke for the same reason. (Edit: Just double-checked villainous vermilion and that is exactly what happened.) (Edit x2: Except villainous vermilion wasn't mod-locked, unlike the other three mentioned above. Is that normal when the sponsor was suspended or is this abnormal?)
Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Well, are people going to undo the discard? If so, I'd better lock it. But seriously, no more appearance tropes while we're busy cleaning up existing ones, unless they've been pre-approved.
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
answering your question, Not On Any Flatbread, a Super Trope can have many Sub Tropes (and Sister Tropes). But a given trope can have multiple Super Tropes, if they're all appropriate. Say there are multiple aspects to it — it may be a plot, character, location, trope — and there is a Super Trope for each, they all apply (random example: location is scary because it's rural, Super Tropes include scary settings and rural locations used for greater narrative purpose).
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
To further explain Not On Any Flatbread's question, a trope can also be multiple sub-tropes "down" (so a sub-subtrope to something), but you would only list the most relevant subtrope. It would just be redundant to list the sub-sub-subtrope along with the sub-subtrope and subtrope.
Also, it seems a bit presumptuous to just assume that people are going to restore those drafts when there isn't any problematic tropers involved (other than the one who is already suspended).
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Erring on the side of safety.
Some tropers are sensible folks who realize 'ah crap, yeah, they're right'.
Others get what my dad calls 'emotionally invested' and can't (or won't) understand that knocking out bad [insert here] is NOT personal -it's about the wiki.
Since preventing damage to the Wiki is the first order of business, and you can't always tell which troper is going to act way (although a track record helps), the mods have to err on the side of caution.
Personally, I think if the best description a trope can be given is copy-paste-edit a little, at the very least it needs a ton of work.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
There's a TLP entry (Yellow Is Heroic) that states it is "A Super-Trope to Primary-Color Champion". My knee-jerk reaction was that this was wrong—I think of the Super-Trope, Sister Trope, and Sub-Trope distinctions as being a "tree" structure, where one Super-Trope can have multiple direct Sub Tropes (Sister Tropes to one another), but each group of Sister Tropes would have only one direct Super-Trope. This understanding is supported by the description of The Same But More Specific, which says that a Sub-Trope is something that is The Same But More Specific of the Super-Trope and serves a distinct narrative function.
However, upon digging around, I found that the existing trope Red Is Heroic makes the same claim about being "a" Super-Trope to Primary-Color Champion, while Primary-Color Champion itself states that it is a "A Sub-Trope of Good Colors, Evil Colors, Red Is Heroic and Blue Is Heroic." By contrast, Blue Is Heroic says "A Sub-Trope of Good Colors, Evil Colors. When Blue Is Heroic and Red Is Heroic are both applied to the same character you get a Primary-Color Champion."
To me, the description under Blue Is Heroic is the one that makes sense with the way I think of Super Tropes. Blue Is Heroic, Red Is Heroic, and Primary-Color Champion would all be Sub Tropes of Good Colors, Evil Colors, but Primary-Color Champion wouldn't be a Sub-Trope of either of the single-color tropes because it has a required element that is not covered either Red Is Heroic or Blue Is Heroic, namely the requirement to feature significant amounts of both red and blue rather than just one of the colors individually.
Which usage of Super Tropes is correct?