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Someoneman Since: Nov, 2011
2016-06-12 09:14:12

These are the only edits they made, so I think there's a very high chance of it being agenda-based.

However, I remember reading somewhere that using the singular "they" like on Shed the Family Name instead of "he or she" was considered the preferred way of referring to a character in trope descriptions where gender doesn't matter.

Edited by Someoneman
Arctimon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2016-06-12 09:18:29

I would feel better about their edits if they didn't have such a stuffy edit reason.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
2016-06-12 09:32:21

To be honest, if I saw a sentence saying "him/her" or "she/he" or "himself/herself" I'd probably change it to "them", "they" or "themselves" simply because it smooths out the sentence and creates a less clunky paragraph. It is acceptable English to do this.

However, the edit reason does suggest this is about gender issues and not about readability.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
war877 Since: Dec, 2015
2016-06-12 10:07:50

As much as I applaud the unerasing of my gender, it is not the job of tvtropes to be politically correct. This should be made clear to newcomers.

I actually have more trouble with the last edit. Changing non-consentual sex to rape does nothing for the article that I can see and is slightly less aesthetically pleasing.

Edited by war877
tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
2016-06-12 14:46:30

Yeah, reading those edit reasons gives me a big reason to suspect an agenda. Maybe someone should PM them and explain such agenda-driven edits are a big no-no here? Like you said, we aren't here to be PC

MissMokushiroku Since: Mar, 2010
2016-06-12 16:31:46

So if a person changes "he/she" to "they" (as I have done in the past) for grammatical reasons, it's okay, but if they do it for reasons of inclusivity, it's agenda-based editing? I don't see anything wrong with the edits or the edit reason.

Just leave it. There's no sense in reverting valid edits just because the person doing the editing is doing it to be quote-unquote "politically correct" (god, I'll be so happy if I never have to encounter that phrase again).

^^ That's a matter of personal taste. I personally find the current edit a slightly easier read than the previous version. Also, I've seen enough people who consider "non-consensual sex" to be distinct from "rape" (particularly, believing that the former is acceptable or at least not worthy of persecution while the latter is a crime) that I can understand wanting to make the "rape" part more explicit.

war877 Since: Dec, 2015
2016-06-12 17:26:22

I think there is a difference between non-consensual sex and rape. The edit changes the meaning of the article. The reason I didn't say that this ruined the article is that both versions are acceptable.

Note that either sex was changed to any gender. Unlike both changes of he/she to they, this does actually correct non-binary erasure. But it is ugly and bad. Changing he/she to they is correcting grammar and does not actually correct non-binary erasure.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010
2016-06-12 17:34:09

Honestly, while this person clearly needs a tap on the shoulder about Righting Great Wrongs, "any gender" doesn't read at all clunkily to me.

Edit: Righting Great Wrongs is apparently not what I thought it was, but you get what I mean.

Edited by nrjxll
bwburke94 (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
2016-06-12 18:49:58

Regarding "any gender", I think we've discussed this before. I'd consider an edit war over it agenda-based, but usually not a singular edit. However, looking at the context of these edits, there's a clear attempt to change the meaning of the sentences.

  • Heroic Self-Deprecation: "Children and teenagers of either sex" to "...of any gender" is clear agenda-based editing, especially given the edit summary. The difference between sex and gender is important in context, and there's really no reason to specify sex or gender neutrality in this example anyway. There's also a singular "themself" added in there, but I have no issue with singular "they" or its variants and the meaning wasn't changed.
  • Shed the Family Name: Technically agenda-based, but singular "their" is more concise than "his or her" in this case anyway.
  • Half-Breed Discrimination: The potholed trope is called Child by Rape, not Child By Non-Consensual Sex. Changing the text to "rape" makes it both more concise and more accurate to the potholed trope, so changing the meaning of the sentence (to the extent that non-consensual sex and rape are different things) is a secondary concern.

I've reverted part of the first edit by removing the phrase "of any gender", but everything else seems fine.

2025: the year it all ends?
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2016-06-13 00:57:39

Called them in for a talk.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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