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Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
2016-01-20 08:10:30

I'm not really seeing natter. It's pertinent context. However, it's genuinely inaccurate (Riddler knew Batman's identity by then).

EDIT: ... oh, I see. You mean the Film.Batman example, not the Batman Forever example. Geez, that's a mess.

Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
randomsurfer Since: Jan, 2001
2016-01-20 08:13:48

The second Batman Forever example too, where there's a conversation re Batman feeling remorse over killing the Joker in the first film.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
2016-01-20 08:18:37

I just pulled the whole Film.Batman example. It's plain not an example. The hero killing the villain isn't subverting anything, and Batman is responsible for the Joker's death, but it doesn't mean he was trying to kill him. He was trying to stop him from escaping (as he is wont to do), and the sheer idiocy of the helicopter pilot and Joker's refusal to let go led to his death.

The second Batman Forever example is just more natter for the Batman example, so that goes bye-bye.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2016-01-20 20:06:49

Yeah... a subversion is defined as "the work makes it seem like it's going to play the trope straight, but then doesn't."

What happened in Batman was an AVERSION - it just didn't have the trope at all - and aversions are not usually notable.

In this case I could see it being notable, because of how ubiquitous the Save the Villain trope is in comics, especially regarding Batman's code against killing.

Personally, I am in the "Batman should have killed Joker long ago" camp, but still. For fans of Batman's comics, where Batman has gone so far as to fight against other good guys in the name of saving his villains, it's pretty jarring the way he straight up murders Joker in the movie. (And make no mistake, even if he didn't point a gun and pull the trigger, he totally knew what was going to happen there. At the very least he didn't do anything to stop it.)

EDIT: Although, what I'm talking about would probably go under Death by Adaptation, come to think of it.

Edited by wrm5
Spinosegnosaurus77 Since: May, 2011
2016-01-21 04:24:45

For future reference, there's a thread for when you see natter but can't clean it up yourself.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
2016-01-21 10:41:18

^^ It's Superhero Movie Villains Die. Anyhoo, I do like the death because it's nice and karmic. Batman causes it, sure, but I wouldn't say it's his fault. So often movies skirt this by basically having the villain's death be solely caused by them, but Bat's got the ball rolling here. The Joker could've easily avoided his death if he just let go, but... nope!

Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2016-01-21 11:46:40

↑ Never even heard of that trope. Thanks.

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