TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Ask The Tropers

Go To

Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help. It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread for ongoing cleanup projects.

Ask the Tropers:

Trope Related Question:

Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

Elbruno Since: Nov, 2011
2015-11-07 18:04:04

That's some gross misuse of both YMMV. They need to be taught that those are not tickets for complaining about characters they don't like.

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."
Chytus Since: Sep, 2010
2015-11-07 19:12:22

Tuol's history. He seems to really not like Mabel.

AdricDePsycho Since: Oct, 2014
2015-11-07 19:33:06

He's also tried adding in examples of Seasonal Rot and Parvum Opus to Gravity Falls before (even though the series has yet to finish airing). It's becoming annoying how he misuses tropes like that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MagBas Since: Jun, 2009
2015-11-08 09:43:23

He included the following to Base Breaker:

"*** The debate over whether she's a Creator's Pet is worth mentioning as well. Some perceive a difference in the way the show treats Mabel's mistakes verses Dipper's mistakes, and either fans don't believe there is one, trust this as an additional conflict that will be addressed in the future, or believe it's a bias in the writing. Those who believe it's the latter often speculate that Hirsch just can't bring himself to be as judgmental towards the flaws of Mabel (whose character is based off his sister) as he is towards the flaws of the other characters in his show.

MyFinalEdits (Spin-off Series)
2015-11-08 10:05:29

I definitely perceive an agenda here.

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
2015-11-08 11:17:39

That's a third level bullet point to boot! Someone needs to ge the mods on his case.

Plus, his edit reason makes it clear he doesn't care what other's opinons are on this subject(moving his opinion from Creator's Pet to Base Breaker), only that his is important, and that he'll keeping bashing Mabel no matter what..

Edited by tryrar
MagBas Since: Jun, 2009
2015-11-08 12:51:09

Adric De Psycho removed this with "This is an unnecessary edit. Nothing about Alex Hirsch's sister needs to be added. ". Cyberguy64 put this again with "Replaced. A. There's no reason to get rid of the entire post, even if you disagree, and B. There's no reason to remove the other side's reasoning for why she breaks the base."

Edited by MagBas
MyFinalEdits (Spin-off Series)
2015-11-08 13:33:38

At this point, only divine intervention (that is, the staff's) can save us.

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
2015-11-08 13:56:12

Lights up the Mod Signal

Edited by tryrar
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
2015-11-08 14:07:21

Na na na na na na na Fighteer!

AdricDePsycho Since: Oct, 2014
2015-11-08 15:32:42

I tried to remove that particular section because it was, indeed, unnecessary natter. Plus, as has been discussed repeatedly on the Gravity Falls thread, Mabel, while not a perfectly moral character or a universally loved character, does not meet the criteria of Creator's Pet because she is not loathed by a majority of fans.

Also, tuohl has been adding to the YMMV entries that have to do with Mabel, mostly minor ones but with a lot of natter involved.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Elbruno Since: Nov, 2011
2015-11-08 18:05:55

^And even if she was loathed you still couldn't call her a Creator's Pet. She's a protagonist. You can't steal the show from the actual protagonists when you're one of them.

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-11-08 18:39:12

That's not true.

We've had this argument before, as to whether you can be both a protagonist and a Creator's Pet and people gave that exact same argument - that a protagonist can't be a Creator's Pet because they can't fit requirement three - unwarranted Character Focus - since as protagonist it's expected that they'll be the center of attention.

The decision was, while it's difficult it's not impossible. The main character can also be the Spotlight-Stealing Squad.

Basically, ask yourself the following questions...

If you answered "yes" to one or more of these questions, you might be watching Dragonball Z.

...oh yeah, and also the main character might totally be a Creator's Pet. That too.

All that said, I do want to restate this for the record: while it isn't impossible for the protagonist to be a Creator's Pet, it is very, very difficult.

The reason for this, aside from the aforementioned "it's expected that they'll be the center of attention" there's also the simple fact that it's unlikely a main character will be so reviled as to reach this point, considering if they were really that hated then people would probably just stop watching the show.

Edited by wrm5
AdricDePsycho Since: Oct, 2014
2015-11-08 18:44:46

Well Mabel fits none of that criteria then. If anything, she doesn't have as much focus compared to Dipper, and the two of them are supposed to be joint leads. It's kind of a big topic over on the Gravity Falls thread about how it's Dipper's story mainly.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-11-08 18:48:20

Yeah, basically like I said it's expected for a protagonist to be the center of attention, so to count as a real spotlight stealer they have to go above and beyond what would normally be considering spotlight theft.

Like, if the show has joint leads she would have to have WAY more screentime than her supposed co-star. If she doesn't, then she's not receiving unwarranted focus, just the amount that you would expect.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
2015-11-08 19:13:43

I am relatively active in the Creator's Pet forum and it has been decided, for this site, that a protagonist cannot be a creator's pet. If a character is one of the protagonists, they are automatically disqualified.

And, for the record, Character Shilling is when a character is highly praise for being good or the best, but their actual skills are more of an Informed Ability or simply fail to impress.

Edited by Ramona122003
Karxrida Since: May, 2012
2015-11-08 20:10:16

Character Shilling does not always equal Informed Ability.

Edited by Karxrida
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
2015-11-08 20:30:22

True. But a character who can back up why they're shill are usually more forgiven than the Informed Ability type. There is also this line from the Character Shilling page:

'Remember, it's only really shilling when we don't know why such praise and admiration is being given. If they've already shown they can back it up, it probably doesn't count.'

Edited by Ramona122003
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
2015-11-10 10:34:54

Yeah, wrm5, it's been made clear that the main character cannot be a Creator's Pet.

Much to my chagrin, because I feel like Alice from the Resident Evil movies is a perfect example (and I maintain that since she manages to steal focus away from the game characters, she should count) but nope, main character of the movies so she doesn't count.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
TobiasDrake (Edited uphill both ways)
2015-11-10 11:44:57

In addition to the problematic nature of trying to claim the main character as a Creator's Pet, the other problem with it is the fundamental fact that a Base Breaker can never be a Creator's Pet. One of the strict criteria for Creator's Pet is that the character is The Scrappy: utterly reviled by the fandom as a whole.

If the reaction to the character within the fandom is divided, then the character is too well-liked by at least half the audience to qualify as a Creator's Pet. So trying to say that "Some consider X to be a Creator's Pet" within a Base Breaker entry is oxymoronic.

Edited by TobiasDrake My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Since: Oct, 2014
2015-11-11 22:35:13

So does that mean I should remove that bit from the entry for Base Breaker that I'd already tried to remove?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2015-11-12 01:46:07

This discussion is more suited for the discussion page than for ATT.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Top