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Karxrida Since: May, 2012
2015-05-23 22:06:16

While there isn't a length requirement that I know of, I personally would recommend waiting until there's a couple chapters and/or a couple thousand words of text so there's ample Troping material.

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2015-05-24 03:21:43

There is a rule that the page needs to have at least 3 good trope examples listed.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Century Since: Feb, 2012
2015-05-24 07:57:18

Authors of fanfics who start their own fanfic pages are generally not encouraged to fill in the YMMV pages since they're for Audience Reaction and the author isn't the audience.

Edited by Century
TheNerfGuy Since: Mar, 2011
2015-05-24 08:32:37

They can technically add YMMV items to the main page since they're technically invoked when the author says they're in there. They just have to make sure they're In-Universe examples, though, and make sure there isn't already a non-YMMV trope version.

SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-05-26 11:56:37

^^ Just to clarify (you're not wrong, but I don't think you're using strong enough language) I'm pretty sure we have a hard rule against the author of any work (Fan Work or otherwise) editing the YMMV page for their work at all; it's less an "encouragement" thing and more a "do not do it at all ever" thing.

However, as Nerf says, YMMV tropes that are Invoked or In-Universe aren't actually YMMV, so that's legit.

Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2015-05-26 12:20:17

I thought that transferring misplaced YMMV tropes was permitted, as long as it was a straight transplant content-wise. (No way I'm asking anyone to put up with a badly punctuated or spelled entry.)

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-05-26 12:46:38

We have a hard rule against authors adding their own YMMV items. If someone else adds them and the creator moves the entries to the proper subpage, that's fine, hypothetical sock- or meatpuppetry aside.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-05-26 13:08:22

^ I didn't think of that. That's a better way to explain it, anyway.

StarSword Since: Sep, 2011
2015-05-27 07:36:05

One other rule is that Word of God is only allowed if you're stating something you said elsewhere. E.g. you're allowed to give Word of Gay if you said Bob is gay in author's notes or a forum post, but you can't use TV Tropes as your podium, as it were. (This was what I was told re: Word of God entries on my own fics.)

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-05-27 09:05:24

Makes sense. That would create an infinite loop of TV Tropes troping itself troping itself troping itself troping itself troping itself ad infinitum.

Gideoncrawle Since: Dec, 2012
2015-05-27 19:05:05

Fighteer, we didn't used to have a hard rule against authors adding their own YMMV items; for subjective items that are actual tropes, it used to be merely "discouraged". Indeed, you once told me yourself (a while back, when I was relatively new and still learning the ropes) that it wasn't actually prohibited. If you don't mind my asking, when did the policy change?

Bigotry in the name of inclusion is still bigotry.
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-05-28 09:08:36

"Discouraged" and "hard rule" are difficult to draw a firm distinction between. An author cannot add Audience Reactions, obviously. Subjective tropes in general are, well, subjective. Their intent does not necessarily matter.

So the question would be: what tropes would an author reasonably be able to add to a YMMV page under these guidelines?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Karxrida Since: May, 2012
2015-05-28 09:10:23

Only stuff that was added to the main page by someone else, but should have been put in YMMV.

SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-05-28 09:43:28

^ Well, yeah, but we established that that's kosher. He means when is it appropriate for an author to write a YMMV example.

Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2015-05-28 14:52:07

Only thing I can think of is if they do a public reading to a large group and the majority reacts in a similar way. And that is tapdancing the line.

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Gideoncrawle Since: Dec, 2012
2015-05-28 20:26:14

Fighteer: Pandering to the Base and Bizarro Episode were the first two that came to mind, if the author is willing to own up to either or both—especially if the author has acknowledged these things in other venues, such as a fanfic's reviews page. (Compare Word of God citation policy.) Indeed, I question the extent to which Bizarro Episode is really YMMV in the first place, seeing as it's a subtrope of the objective Something Completely Different.

Furthermore, there are objective tropes whose very presence implies the presence of certain YMMV tropes. For example, Ensemble Dark Horse (YMMV) + Pandering to the Base (YMMV) = Breakout Character (objective).

Candi: A related situation would be reporting commonly observed reactions from readers who have chosen to leave feedback, if the author is willing and able to describe these reactions in a suitably dispassionate tone. Broken Base and the related Base Breaker are the first examples that comes to mind here, but things like Squick and Rescued from the Scrappy Heap reactions (not to mention Misaimed Fandom) may also come to light this way. I love Wiki Magic as much as the next troper, but let's face it: most fan works are simply too obscure to get much benefit from it unless you know the right people.

Edited by Gideoncrawle Bigotry in the name of inclusion is still bigotry.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010
2015-05-28 22:51:02

If people aren't interesting in adding to a YMMV page, then the work just doesn't have one. That's not a problem.

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-05-29 05:01:18

^^ There is a very simple answer to those: the author cannot judge what is in the minds of their audience. The reason why Pandering to the Base and Bizarro Episode are YMMV is that the intent of the author doesn't matter; it's how the fans perceive it.

We want people to add examples from firsthand experience, not secondhand.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Gideoncrawle Since: Dec, 2012
2015-05-29 19:38:05

^ Perhaps; but if the people in a position to offer firsthand perception don't happen to be active editors here, it feels like a backdoor notability restriction.

Bigotry in the name of inclusion is still bigotry.
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2015-05-30 04:21:41

^^ There is nothing preventing an author from pimping their tvtropes page on The Rant or similar locations.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
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