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NemuruMaeNi Since: Apr, 2014
2015-05-21 23:24:58

Cut everything from the point where examples in media section start — upwards till some first paragraph, clean out the personal jabs from it, cut the image and the caption, cut page quotes, salvage the phrase about end of his office tenure, cut the Funny/ subpage, skim for poor style moments over examples in media. Edit reason: "retelling what runs people in satire industry had with his persona should be less obfuscated, less looking like an agenda."

Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2015-05-22 03:06:35

The real life troping needs to go, but the description seems fine to me (it does point out that he was unpopular during his time in office, but it doesn't condemn him for it — if anything it makes him out to be The Woobie).

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NemuruMaeNi Since: Apr, 2014
2015-05-22 03:54:55

^ Obvious contradiction. Calling a real-life politician The Woobie, while vouching for not troping real life.

Bisected8 MOD (Primordial Chaos)
2015-05-22 04:12:35

The Woobie was simply how I summarised the description, not him being troped.

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GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2015-05-22 05:26:24

Nemuru Mae Ni: Note that Bisected8 writes "makes him out to be The Woobie", not "makes him The Woobie". There's a big difference between those statements: the latter is troping Mr. Brown, the former is just describing what other people say.

SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-05-22 08:31:25

I brought this page up in the Removing Negativity and Bashing etc. thread a few months ago, but it doesn't look like anybody's traipsed over there yet. I don't know the first thing about British politics so I can't do much about it myself without also doing a boatload of research, but it doesn't take a political expert to see that that page really hates Brown.

MattStriker Since: Jun, 2012
2015-05-22 08:57:23

Well, in terms of popularity, Brown was basically the UK's answer to Dan Quayle.

SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-05-22 09:10:12

^ Aside from the fact that comparing one politician I know nothing about to another I know nothing about doesn't tell me anything about either of them (except that apparently you think Dan Quayle was a shitty politician), neither of them need to be described on TV Tropes with phrases such as "[making him Prime Minister was] one of the worst job moves ever", "boring", an "Evil Chancellor", "The Starscream", or "better at taking over the place than he was at actually running it".

We constantly bring this up in regard to works but apparently it hasn't sunk in that this applies to Useful Notes: Popularity and reception of anything does not matter at all, one lick, one bit, anywhere outside of a YMMV namespace.

We don't even describe Hitler as evil (or at least, we shouldn't), so there's no way we should be describing Gordon Brown as a shitty politician. We can document objective facts, and if that makes him look like a shitty politician, readers can draw the "obvious" conclusion, but we should not say that outright. It's Useful Notes, not a second-rate editorial funded by a political party.

Edited by SolipSchism
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2015-05-22 11:06:34

If Evil Chancellor is indeed an example on the page, I suppose it could be removed just on the grounds that we never apply evil tropes to real people.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
2015-05-22 20:27:02

It's caught the mood of the way the tabloids reported and assassinated him. That means it's not particularly accurate - or usefully informative - except to capture the mood of the tabloids at the time, and the sentiment they whipped up in the country at the time. It's done that part very well.

I think most of the tropes shouldn't be there.

However, it looks like there's a similar problem with most of the prime ministers.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
lakingsif Since: Dec, 2012
2015-05-23 06:02:10

^ that problem comes up whenever there's an election. His former party are trying to find a new leader so there's all this debate of Brown vs Blair. Realistically, he doesn't need a page that extensive but I don't find such a big problem with a lot of the tropes if they're public reactionary ones.

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Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
2015-05-23 09:01:20

They seem to be mostly an excuse to take a pot shot at him - usually about things the tabloids whipped up rather than what actually happened. They're certainly not an impartial record, and they're targeting the man rather than the public or tabloids. and that is a problem.

Like I said, several of the prime ministers' pages seem to be experiencing this to a degree; not to the extent of this page, however.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
DracMonster Since: Jan, 2001
2015-05-23 09:14:01

We normally have to keep the page for the current American president locked even for a while after they leave office. Methinks this may need to apply to Prime Ministers as well, although I admit David Cameron's page isn't too bad right now.

EDIT: Argh, except for having a trope list.

Edited by DracMonster
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-05-23 11:27:10

To be fair, it's not an issue of being an "ignorant American." I mean, how much do you think the average Brit really knows about Barack Obama? That he's black, President, and basically nothing else?

SetsunasaNiWa Since: Apr, 2015
2015-05-23 12:07:28

Cut and torched things down. This has dragged on too long for Ask the Tropers. (signed: Nemuru Mae Ni's sockpuppet)

Edited by SetsunasaNiWa
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
2015-05-25 15:29:07

I've gone through the entire prime ministerial list right back to Warpole, and amended the following pages to remove real life tropes and leave behind only tropes relating to fiction and media (where present):

David Cameron, Margaret Thatcher, Clement Attlee, Anthony Eden, Ramsay MacDonald, David Lloyd George, The Duke of Wellington, and William Pitt the Younger.

I also removed the real life tropes (but left the tropes relating to fiction) from Nick Clegg's page as well.

I hope this is okay.

Edited to add: I didn't think to check the descriptions for any use of real life troping there. Should I have done that, too?

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
NemuruMaeNi Since: Apr, 2014
2015-05-25 23:16:42

It's up to you. There isn't a deadline on clearing all the bad stuff from everywhere.

Edit: I've gone over those pages page quotes, cleaning potholes and stuff.

Edited by NemuruMaeNi
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