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SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
2015-03-29 06:06:00

What is "news from other sources"? It does sound to me like something that should not be used.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Adept MOD (Holding A Herring)
2015-03-29 06:11:05

Things from the "cast"'s Facebook pages, or news/magazine articles regarding the people appearing in the shows. Basically, this sort of entries:

  • Camp Gay: He is confirmed to be gay on his personal Facebook page.

Edited by Adept
DracMonster Since: Jan, 2001
2015-03-29 06:47:59

Nopenopenopenopenope. That's troping his personal life.

Also, Camp Gay is about a character being an effeminate stereotype for comedy. Claiming someone's this just because they came out of the closet... well, do I have to explain how wrong that would be?

bwburke94 (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
2015-03-29 11:20:15

If they're not portrayed as gay onscreen, they're not Camp Gay for the purposes of the show.

As an example of where LGBT tropes are acceptable, Richard Hatch from Survivor: Borneo is consistently mentioned to be gay onscreen.

2025: the year it all ends?
Daefaroth Since: Jan, 2014
2015-03-29 12:49:11

^Again as was mentioned above: Real people are gay. Fictional characters are Camp Gay, Straight Gay, Ambiguously Gay, Whatever Gay... We shouldn't trope real life people because real life people very rarely fit in nice little boxes.

Edited by Daefaroth This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-29 12:50:25

^ I dunno. I self-identify as Straight Bi. Would it count if a person considers THEMSELVES to be that thing?

Daefaroth Since: Jan, 2014
2015-03-29 13:03:12

I think there is a notable difference between

The better question would be how would you feel if someone filmed you 24 hours a day and then cut it into a 1 hour show for entertainment value and then I made declarations on your personality and sexuality based on what the editor showed me?

This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-29 13:19:34

^ Good point.

Along those lines, though, what do we do about the "villains" of reality shows? Because, again, reality show editors cut for Rule of Drama, we also have to ask how the Alpha Bitch of whatever show feels about being labelled as such forever because some editor thought she'd make a good villain and cut out everything except the parts where she was grumpy.

...maybe we just shouldn't trope Reality TV. I doubt we'd lose much by removing that junk from the site altogether.

Edited by wrm5
bwburke94 (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
2015-03-29 13:41:47

We've had this discussion before, reality TV contestants have consistently mentioned they're playing "characters".

2025: the year it all ends?
Adept MOD (Holding A Herring)
2015-03-29 21:01:01

So basically, we're allowed to trope what we see on-screen as though they're fictional characters?

wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-29 21:45:42

You know, though, I was thinking about this...

It's true that I wouldn't like...well, what Daefaroth said, if someone did it to me. But see, I wouldn't go on a reality show in the first place, because I already know the editors would make me look like a stupid asshole, because that gets better ratings.

The kind of people who go on reality shows are the kind who are totally okay with letting themselves be made to look like fools as long as it means people are paying attention to them.

So yeah, I really don't think we need to worry that much about whether we're hurting their feelings, since they clearly don't care themselves.

Daefaroth Since: Jan, 2014
2015-03-29 23:39:19

^Sure. Who would be on a reality show except for the fame and fortune? That works great for survivor, road rules, and real world. But where does it stop? Do we trope people on addiction? On hoarding? My 600 pound life? Are those people playing roles that allow them to be critically analyzed on a web page?

And if you allow one how do you justify preventing the other?

I personally am against troping real people, even if they decide to go on reality tv. My $0.02

This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-30 01:27:11

^ For one thing, that's not really how responsibility works. It's not like the guys from Hoarders can just bust into your home and start filming. You know if you appear on Hoarders they're going to make you look like a pathetic basketcase. You know My 600 Pound Life is gonna make you look like a Fat Slob. You know that. So if you sign the consent forms, you know what you're getting into.

But that said, here's the other thing you're forgetting: as Burke and Adept said, there's a difference between troping the real people, and troping their reality TV persona.

So no, you wouldn't be allowed to trope the real life of actual person Mike Sorrentino* any more than you would be allowed to trope the personal life of Orlando Bloom or George Lucas, but you can totally trope "The Situation".... even if that means troping him as something negative. Because if Mr. Sorrentino doesn't like being called The Scrappy (or whatever you want to trope him as) then, well, he should have played his role differently, or just not have signed the consent forms.

(*Yes, I had to look up the guy's real name, which doubles as basically all the research I want to ever do on that show.)

Edited by wrm5
Daefaroth Since: Jan, 2014
2015-03-30 09:55:40

Ah. Responsibility. My apologies, I wasn't aware we were having a discussion about responsibility. I thought we were having a discussion about ethics. My mistake.

This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-03-30 12:11:16

That is correct: participants in a reality show effectively agree to have their "show persona" be seen by the world and promoted as entertainment; thus those personas (but not the actual RL people) are tropable under the Live-Action TV media category, not the Real Life category.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-30 14:32:04

^^ Trying to discuss ethics without bringing up personal responsibility is like trying to discuss how to cook an omelette without mentioning eggs.

DracMonster Since: Jan, 2001
2015-03-30 15:05:10

Ok, guys, the original query has been settled and this is getting a touch uncivil.

Move it to the forums if you still feel the need to argue about it.

Edited by DracMonster
wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-30 15:16:26

Who's getting uncivil? I don't think anyone's been called an asshole, or threatened anyone else.

It's fine if you think this discussion isn't appropriate in this venue, but let's not overreact.

SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-03-30 15:50:56

So maybe I misunderstood the question, but I actually read it as asking if a character has a Facebook page, can you use that.

Like, an official one, not just one some random yokel created to indulge their fandom.

EDIT: Although I suppose the OP did explicitly mention reality shows, so yeah, I misunderstood the question.

Edited by SolipSchism
Adept MOD (Holding A Herring)
2015-03-30 16:25:43

^ That was my original query, yes, but I suppose that, since the character's personal Facebook page is not tied to the life action show they're playing in, I suppose that troping information from what you get there would probably count as troping their personal life.

wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-03-30 17:23:43

^ Maybe it would help to put this in another context...

Would the Torgue Facebook page and the things it says be considered a legitimate source for information relating to ''Borderlands 2?

I think it's iffy. In this case, that account was created by Gearbox Software to promote the then upcoming "Mr. Torgue's Campaign of Carnage" DLC, so it was legit. Here are the questions we need to answer, though:

1. Who is posting on that account? Is it one of the devs? The producer? An intern? A third-party marketing guy that Gearbox hired?

2. Does EVERYTHING that account posts go through a filter to make sure it's what the developers want to be said?

3. Is the account still being used? If so, is it still being used in an official manner? That is, can information posted there today still be considered "from a legit source?"

Well, the Torgue page might be a bad example, since most of it has been deleted, but you get the idea. Basically, there's a LOT of questions.

Edited by wrm5
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2015-03-30 20:17:57

I'd call that a second, related, medium. I would either trope it separately, or call it All There in the Manual.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-03-30 20:40:51

There is a phenomenon called a "character blog", where the writers of a work will create a social media profile that purports to be an in-universe character or characters and posts in-character as them. These are as tropable as any other fictional construct. If they discuss material external to the work, such as its production or whatnot, then that counts as Word of God and would go in Trivia.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
randomsurfer Since: Jan, 2001
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2015-03-31 07:31:10

The question was how much we consider it Canon. The page there says that it exists somewhere between Canon and Fanon, and Fighteer was saying it sometimes counts as Trivia (Word of God).

Edited by crazysamaritan Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-03-31 07:46:18

It's definitely not fanon unless the fans are writing it, which would be weird. It's sort of an extra-curricular communication channel between the writers and the fans. One supposes that the operative question of where it lies in the scale between Canon and Trivia is whether the material in the blog has a direct impact on the main story.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
2015-03-31 09:41:21

^^^^ Oh, Character Blog is actually exactly what I was thinking of. So that makes sense, then.

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