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:/ ...
Note that What An Idiot is not a trope. It's a YMMV item. As such, if you wanted to keep the entry as What an Idiot, it should have been moved to ymmv subpage. If the other party guessed you wished to keep this example still a character page material, branding an example back as a trope was doing you a favor.
The context provided for the example is not enough for my non-fan self to suggest what is the right thing for the described event. However, it's quite strange to see trope misuse sentiments in close proximity to simple slapping of another name in the front and leaving example that way. If that's supposed to be a What An Idiot example, my advice is to read What an Idiot more carefully, and to explicitly forbid oneself to get by on trope names alone in the future.
Edited by NemuruMaeNiExcept it's not doing a favor because, as he just said, it's not an example of Too Dumb to Live.
Too Dumb to Live is a Death Trope, specifically for when a character dies (or something equally horrible) as a result of their own stupidity. From the page itself:
If the character didn't die, become a zombie, etc. because of his stupidity then it does not count.
However, since you are right that What An Idiot is a YMMV item and therefore not applicable to character pages, I suggest using Idiot Ball instead.
I also suggest that in the future you refrain from such condescending remarks, especially since you're actually in the wrong here.
Edited by wrm5Whoops, didn't realize Idiot was YMMV, was just going by its mention in TDTL. My mistake.
Anyway, I'm not certain about Idiot Ball, either, as he was intentionally sabotaging the engine, it wasn't "never thought that would happen" from a person previously shown to be intelligent. That the bus crashed so dramatically is something I'd think no one would really expect.
Edited by Nohbody All your safe space are belong to Trump^^ That's exactly what Idiot Ball means: he did something really stupid. The fact that he did it on purpose is irrelevant, and being a genius prior to the incident isn't a requirement.
I'm not familiar with the work, but to be clear, Idiot Ball is not just "Character does something stupid". It's "Character does something uncharacteristically stupid in service to the plot."
If he's just a stupid character in general, he cannot, by definition, hold the Idiot Ball unless he's being spectacularly, exceptionally stupid, even by his own stupid standards, and the reason for it is that the plot requires it.
Edited by SolipSchismThe character in question has a lot of book smarts, but as made evident by this page, he's made some dumb choices. How about Ditzy Genius, since he is really smart, but he sometimes just has zero common sense?
And yeah, I changed it back to TDTL because I figured that what was listed under YMMV trope "What an Idiot" was an important part of his character, and it did nearly get him and his friends killed. But Ditzy Genius sounds a thousand times better, thanks for educating us on what TDTL really is.
I'm also pretty much completely unaware of Edit Wars and the like, so sorry for any inconveniences, folks!
Edited by Chris116Tell that to YMMV Tropes.
The definition of a trope is objective.
Whether or not a YMMV trope applies is subjective. It is still a trope. We can all agree that the definition of Narm is when something intended to be dramatic comes across as comedic because of poor execution. But what makes it YMMV is that not everyone will agree on what is funny, or on what is intended without Word of God.
Edited by SolipSchismThere are two concepts here that we lump together somewhat clumsily: tropes that everyone may not necessarily agree are present, but are found in the work, its presentation, etc.; and Audience Reactions, which are not tropes at all.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"(Should pay more attention to my watchlist. Sorry.)
The problem I have with using Too Dumb to Live in regards to the incident is that there was no way, in-universe, that sabotaging the fuel line could be believed to result in the bus flipping over as it did. That was pure "let's make the failure dramatic for TV".
All your safe space are belong to TrumpYMMV Tropes is a redirect, not the real article name, and is the only thing on that page that supports that argument.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.^^ Just rewatched the scene (intro scene for S5E5, "Self Help"). Focus was on Eugene talking with Maggie and Glenn in the back. There's a loud "bang", and focus shifts to Abraham. He loses control while swerving around cars sitting on the road, and then the bus flips when it hits one wreck, winding up on its side after having just passed a herd of walkers.
Would Abraham have lost control if not for the sabotage? Probably not, especially if he has MRAP driving experience,* but at least as far as I can tell there's no reason to believe that the sabotage directly caused the accident, or for Eugene to think it's even a serious possibility.
(Setting aside, mind you, that there's a filter between the gas tank and the engine that would stop the ground glass from getting much of anywhere in the first place. :P )
Edited by Nohbody All your safe space are belong to Trump^^ It's not an argument, it's a statement, so take your "being confrontational for the sake of being confrontational" somewhere else please. If you don't think they're tropes then cutlist the redirect and move on with your life.
^ So... what caused the bang? The glass? What makes him flip over? Swerving? Hitting a car?
I'm starting to feel like this situation might just be too complex or nebulous to explain an example adequately even if it did fit... which it doesn't sound like it does.
Edited by SolipSchismIt doesn't show or say the cause of the bang. The only reason the audience knows about the ground glass in the gas tank was Eugene mentioning it after the fact.
As for the flip, Abraham was trying to get the church bus (shortened bus, not the long school bus style) under control while swerving around cars abandoned on the road, and zigged when he should have zagged, hitting a car in a way that made the already swaying bus (from the swerving) go the rest of the way up off its wheels and topple over onto its side.
All your safe space are belong to Trump

On the page Characters.The Walking Dead TV Show Abrahams Group, Eugene was listed on back in Nov 2014 as Too Dumb to Live, which was misusing the trope (as explained here
; TLDR version is that the sabotage didn't kill him nor did it have a reasonable expectation of doing so, as most cars don't normally flip over when their engine dies). It's gone through several dances with that and the more appropriate trope What An Idiot, which I edited it to on Dec 7, 2014, with an edit reason pointing to the discussion page where I explained why WAI applied and not TDTL.
Fast forward to Jan 22, 2015, and Chris116, who had been responsible for earlier changes back to TDTL when it didn't apply, went and changed it back to TDTL without leaving an edit reason or popping into the discussion page.
(full edit history for the page)
(I know the edit warring should have been brought up earlier, but it didn't occur to me then, and then with the change-over for the site there was the issue of my being unable to log into this account due to the e-mail bug that kept me from getting the PW reset message.)
Edited by Nohbody