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wrm5 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-02-08 23:50:20

He's a jerkass with a Freudian Excuse, but the movie doesn't spend enough time on his drama for me to call him The Woobie.

RayAP9 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-02-09 07:14:53

What exactly is the difference?

System Specs: GPU, CPU, Dell Inspiron laptop, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-02-09 07:52:26

I don't see how Wolverine can possibly qualify for The Woobie, which is a required part of that trope. Sure, his life sucks, but he's a super-powered ultra-badass. Cry me a river.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RayAP9 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-02-09 08:00:52

I don't see how Wolverine can possibly qualify for The Woobie, which is a required part of that trope. Sure, his life sucks, but he's a super-powered ultra-badass. Cry me a river.

So is The Winter Soldier of the Captain America franchise, but I'd definitely say his life sucks enough to be a woobie.

Jason Voorhees is also listed as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.

Edited by RayAP9 System Specs: GPU, CPU, Dell Inspiron laptop, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-02-09 08:30:16

From Jerkass Woobie: "First, the character must be a jerk. Even if they help people, they're not just selfish or insensitive - they're outright cruel, insufferable, immoral, amoral and/or the villain."

I don't ever remember Wolverine being portrayed as "cruel, insufferable, immoral". Selfish and insensitive, sure, but not cruel.

From The Woobie: 'A "woobie" is a name for any type of character who makes you feel extremely sorry for them. Basically, the first thing you think to say when you see the woobie is: "Aw, poor baby!"'

Again, no way Wolverine qualifies.

Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds is a distinct trope, and it uses the term "Woobie" slightly differently from the way the parent trope does. In fact, we went through a number of name debates over it before settling on the current one. It means someone who's been emotionally damaged in some fundamental way and decides to take it out on the entire world/universe.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RayAP9 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-02-09 08:37:13

Then what trope does he qualify for in this context, since first it was he's not a woobie, and now it's he's not a jerkass?

EDIT:

From The Woobie: 'A "woobie" is a name for any type of character who makes you feel extremely sorry for them. Basically, the first thing you think to say when you see the woobie is: "Aw, poor baby!"'

Again, no way Wolverine qualifies.

Nobody EVER says "Poor baby" as they watch a giant, machete-wielding goalie slaughter defenseless teenagers hundreds of times over.

And I wasn't implying that Wolverine is a WDOW.

Edited by RayAP9 System Specs: GPU, CPU, Dell Inspiron laptop, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2015-02-09 08:47:15

Why must Wolverine qualify for one of those tropes? It's not like there's a badge of honor awarded for "most troperrific Marvel character". He's a Jerk with a Heart of Gold in most incarnations.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Darksilverhawk Since: Oct, 2014
2015-02-09 08:57:49

Might be a Jerkass Façade? My knowledge of X-men is admittedly limited, but from that example context it might be. I wouldn't say he fits into any particular category and we don't need to try to shoehorn him into one.

Ninja'd by Fighteer while I was off on a Wiki Walk. Jerk with a Heart of Gold does seem more fitting.

Edited by Darksilverhawk Rocks fall, everyone miraculously survives.
RayAP9 Since: Mar, 2014
2015-02-09 08:59:25

He's a Jerk with a Heart of Gold in most incarnations.

That's all I was asking. I knew his attitude as an "asshole protagonist," as I'd put it, goes beyond the anti-hero trope, so I figured there must be something better.

Jerk With a Heart of Gold sounds perfect. Thanks.

Might be a Jerkass Façade?

This is also a good one; other than with Cyclops (who he seems to hate, but works with for the sake of the team), he often seems to subvert his status as a jerkass, such as with the Rogue example— he eventually changes his mind after leaving her stranded, and goes back to pick her up and let her ride in his truck with him.

Edited by RayAP9 System Specs: GPU, CPU, Dell Inspiron laptop, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Candi Since: Aug, 2012
2015-02-09 19:42:31

Wolverine feels more than he lets on -he often goes big brother/grumpy old uncle on the younger members, particularly the ones who can't defend themselves well. (I attribute the specific chivalry towards protection of young girls to the days he was born in.) Neither Rogue or Jubilee were able to adequately protect themselves until they got decent upgrades -and Jubilee's were still crappy.

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Adept MOD (Holding A Herring)
2015-02-10 09:20:39

^^ Keep in mind that Jerk with a Heart of Gold and Jerkass Façade are mutually exclusive, and one character couldn't be both at the same time.

^ That sounds like Sugar-and-Ice Personality.

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