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Well, yeah, as I said before "No examples please" is not usually read the way Fighteer did read it there, so of course people will get confused...
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I'll have to get that policy clarified.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I don't understand that viewpoint. Why would we even have a page for a trope/ymmv/thing if we're not allowing any examples anywhere? No examples on the page I could understand.
If the mods really do mean "no examples anywhere", we may as well open a second Deliberate Red Link section for tropes that have undergone a full Example Sectionectomy in the Permanent Red Link Club just to emphasize it. Or would that be a bit extreme?
Just voicing my opinion on what to do about tropes that forbid all examples anywhere.
Some tropes are heavily controversial and thus, it's better to not have a wick for it to avoid fighting or issues. They still exist and deserve a description. I do agree it's weird, but we've cut lots of tropes, even those that have non-problem uses. Sometimes it has to be done.
That's actually a really good idea, Ryansaurus. It's a good way to fix this issue.
Edited by Irene
A "second Deliberate Redlinks section" not a good way to fix the issue because trope descriptions and In-Universe usages of tropes also link to the pages, not just examples. Redlink is when you don't want any kind of link, anywhere.
Besides, the Flame Bait banner already exists for instances where a topic is too controversial to be given examples anywhere.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Then why don't we classify everything that got the No Examples Please treatment as Flame Bait? Just saying.
Agree with Septimus.
Just curious, does Agu Fungus got smashed? Even if he really just misinterpret the meaning of Example Sectionectomy, fact remain that he choose to continue Edit War by put the trope back instead of pull it to discussion (and while it isn't rule, I don't remember anyone pull "fight mod with mod" end well. XD ).
Edited by Kuruni
^^Because the examples on the trope can attract issues that the examples in the wicks don't. It's an aggregate effect. Also, it's easier to cut just on-page examples than both wicks and on-page examples.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I think that the main reason Base Breaker was classified No Examples Please is that you can literally claim every single character in a work as being disliked by someone, and therefore shoehorn them into the trope.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
So should I re-delete the examples?
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
No, we need a consensus on this. Let me ask around.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
We already have an index for "No examples, anywhere." It's Flame Bait. I really don't see the need to make No Examples Please serve the same purpose. I've found that having no examples on the trope page but having examples on the work page works fine; work pages are curated more, so the natter and complaining is removed, the examples kept clean.
Agreed. Seems unnecessary, and one a work's page, there are people familiar with the subject matter capable of discussing the issue if it gets out of hand.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I think some of the tropes should be moved to Flame Bait regardless of what our decision is, specifically Eight Point Eight, Award Snub, Canon Defilement, Internet Backdraft, Unpleasable Fanbase, and maybe Hype Backlash due to the nature of their content. Others like Base Breaker and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot specifically state not to list examples due to how universal they end up (and in TWAPGP's case, overlapping with What Could Have Been).
Edited by Karxrida If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
UF is already Flame Bait. Just saying.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
^^I'll oppose unless you can give evidence that all these tropes are making problems in the wicks.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It was just a thought (though probably an overreaction). I'll try to fight for Eight Point Eight at least.
The trope itself is basically Fan Dumb and/or Hate Dumb about how reviews don't see a certain work as "perfect" like the fans do and are procedurally bashed for it. Many of the examples I've seen (and even the trope image) aren't even bad scores in the first place.
Edited by Karxrida If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
I agree that works pages are different. Generally, unless the trope is actually starting Flame War or Edit War on the works page itself, I think even a trope with no examples should be allowed to stay on works pages (and even in some cases artist or creator pages, NRLEP examples should even be allowed if the trope is highly important to them as an artist/has deeply influenced their works/is something that is relatively widely known and documented).
Good example of the former (and I'm using hypotheticals here) would be any given one of the Sexual Harassment and Rape Tropes. Quite a few of them are not allowed to have examples, but to list them on a page for a work that contains them both serves as an inherent trigger warning to anyone checking out the work for whatever reason (especially if they didn't see it yet, I've actually known people that have checked out works on TV Tropes to see if they had triggering content that the reviews didn't mention or the like), and if an unambiguous example of said trope exists in a work, there's no reason not to list it as long as the example on the work page can be kept clean and to the point. Which most pages do.
Good example of the latter would be something like Alcoholic Parent. We don't have (real life) examples there because they're exhaustive and gossipy, but let's say the creator/artist/musician was heavily influenced by this. Their parent was a violent alcoholic, and many of their works centered around the idea of alcoholism or Parental Abandonment or various other Daddy Issues or Mommy Issues, and they outright said in multiple interviews their parent was an alcoholic. To not list the trope would be cutting out a hugely important piece of information regarding them, for no really good reason, as long as there wasn't any actual debate and it was proven (well, as much as can be) there.
I'm mostly just arguing for a surgical approach here, rather than the chainsaw to it all. As in, fights on works pages (or even creator pages) aren't as big of an issue as they are on trope pages, especially when the issue isn't a controversy or a fight in that specific context.
Edited by RevolutionStone
So are the mods any closer to a decision? Cause if they decide to allow examples I'd appreciate if they restored a couple pages I purged.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
I think I've started an Edit War on Super Smash Bros. over the removal of tropes listed under Example Sectionectomy. Agu Fungus undid my deletions, and I re-deleted them.
Just an FYI, Fighteer said that any trope listed under No Examples Please means no examples ANYWHERE, so...
Edited by Karxrida