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I'll look at the page, see if I can help, as I have played the game. As for the first part, I'm not entirely sure what it is you're referring to.
ETA: Good lord. I don't even know where to begin with that page. As for the stage directions, after a perusal through your history, I figured out what you meant and looked. Website I found here
said this:
- Stage directions are always enclosed in parenthesis.
So apparently you should use parenthesis instead of brackets. Does that help?
Edited by battosaijoe"Good lord" is an appropriate reaction. I've been accused of "deleting everything [I] don't like" from discussions of that game, but that's definitely not the only reason I'm leery of touching the page.
Ah, apologies. Yes, I meant using () to enclose actions during dialogue as opposed to []. I prefer the former. I've been told it's the latter, but that's been very inconsistently enforced if it's actually a rule (over maybe several dozen pages among thousands) and if it is a rule, I would like to know. And see the page where it's spelled out.
Unfortunately TV Tropes isn't a stage play, but it does lend a little weight to my stance, so thank you!
Insofar as actual stage plays though, I believe it's supposed to be parenthesis, speaking from both websites and my own theatre experience. Here on TV Tropes, however, I don't believe there's a hard rule, as I doubt it's ever come up.
I think it'd probably be the same rule of thumb as the spelling of English words: Whoever got there first spells it, so no running around deleting the u's from colour and flavour or adding them into color and flavor.
As for the page, I'm gonna leave it to a mod. I don't wanna touch it.
Edited by battosaijoeSpec Ops: The Line needs a huge de-nattering and Example Indentation cleanup, from my vantage point.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI keep meaning to sandbox up an administrivia Quotes Formatting page for the mods to look at and see if everyone agrees on, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Anyway, brackets work better for stage directions for a number of reasons, not least because quotes sometimes have their own parentheses for whatever reason, which becomes confusing if the stage directions are also in parentheses. I was originally using parentheses, but I kept running into that problem, and someone pointed out that brackets work better.
Also, I'll clean up the fridge page, but be warned that I know nothing about the game. So a couple good entries might get deleted and bad entries stay in the process.
Edited by Discar Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Re: Scripts, since it's coming up, I was taught standard script formatting in media classes, and all the screenplays I've seen (short film, movie, television or radio play) use parentheses for actions. (They use block capitals for shot changes, key actions and scene descriptions outside of dialogue.) I've also written a few for assignments and everything I read or heard made it clear that was the only format accepted in professional circles. It was very strict. People can't naturally insert parentheses into their own speech, so they should never appear in raw dialogue. That reason means people are transcribing the dialogue incorrectly, not formatting actions incorrectly. I think there needs to be more discussion on this - because, if I'm given to understand, it's not actually a rule and you've been messing with my edits and citing a rule that doesn't exist over them. I don't appreciate it.
If you're not confident and you haven't played the game, isn't that reason enough to leave it to a mod?
Edited by NanoMooseI'm confident. Natter is natter, and it took me ten minutes to clean it up. I just might have made a few minor mistakes that you will be able to catch.
Anyway, I stated my reasoning behind the quotes formatting. Since we quote text-based works (webcomics, books, etc), we do see examples of quotes using parentheses, all the time. And it gets very confusing very quickly when we try to mix them with stage directions formatted the same way. For example, compare transcribing this line from a Harry Potter fan comic both ways:
Draco: (to his father) So, I was wondering, suppose you had a son (who is not me), and he realized he was having these feelings—
Draco: [to his father] So, I was wondering, suppose you had a son (who is not me), and he realized he was having these feelings—
That's just off the top of my head; that line probably wouldn't really need the stage directions anyway, depending on context. But you see my point.
Edited by Discar Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.I did say one of the reasons I'm not touching it is because I lack clout; I'm not a mod. The Headscratchers page (or any YMMV page) is volatile and I'd rather not fling petrol on the flames. My judgement/reasoning on what should stay or go is, from past efforts, not impartial enough.
I do see your point and I'm not convinced. Or confused. And it's still not a rule. [] is used in markup, () is not. There are already problems with broken formatting from missing closing or opening square brackets. Parentheses wouldn't have that issue.
I'm almost positive that the proper formatting for stage directions is square brackets [ ].
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Well, I sandboxed up a quotes formatting page. I think the only part there's a little bit of argument on is the brackets vs parentheses part; everything else is what we've been doing for a while now, it will just provide a page to point people at.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.According to http://www.mhra.org.uk/Publications/Books/StyleGuide/StyleGuideV3.pdf
(section 5.3), square brackets are to be used for editorial and similar comments. Stage direction seems to fall neatly into that category.
^^^ Right. Speaking as an amateur theatre geek, every stage play I've ever read has used parentheses, not square brackets.
I think whether or not either formatting is correct in scripts is irrelevant—especially since, as this thread shows, stage plays, screenplays, and TV scripts have their own formatting styles. I'd personally rather use parentheses (mostly because of my familiarity with stage scripts but also because of the markup thing), but, frankly, both sets of punctuation are "correct" in the sense that they both help convey action. I'm personally more interested in consistency (use parentheses or square brackets, not both) than in the specific set of punctuation used.
eta: ninja'd
Edited by MissMokushirokuI would disagree on the fall-neatly part. Actions and directions are within the work itself, not added by an outside agent. Personally, I would prefer parentheses because it's what I know and use and I just think they look better. Wholly selfish reasons, yes, but they're also what I've seen used throughout most of the wiki. In fact, I switched to them from square brackets so long ago I can't remember.
I hate to add another variable to the mix but for the sake of completing the available information on the subject I feel compelled to add the following. This is in regard to staged productions of theatrical scripts.
Depending on the publication source for the script, the stage directions may be a record of the blocking for a specific production of the show. Usually it is the Broadway production in the US but not always. And in that case are added by an outside agent because they are from the stage manager's notes for the production. I have seen these most often as italics inside parentheses.
Some playwrights include extensive stage directions for their scripts, Tennessee Williams comes to mind, and those notes are included in the publication also as italics, but not inside parentheses.
Also, why would we be including that information? Unless created by the playwright, the stage directions are the intellectual property of the director of the original piece and are there as a record of how that production was staged. There have been some legal issues with subsequent productions of scripts that presented exact replicas of the originally staged production. Many theatres that present productions have to be careful to take a different approach to the piece because of staging and space considerations. While I understand including that information if it was written by the playwright (Exit, pursued by a bear) I don't understand what the purpose is of including that information here. Unless there is a bear.
We're not looking to copy scripts directly here, so don't worry about that. Just trying to settle on a standard for formatting quotes, 'cause sometimes there's a bear.
I say we take the cue from the professional standard used by screenplays in television and film, which encloses action/tone/direction in parentheses; vocal sound effects, like groaning or wordless yelling, use square brackets, but I think that's a tad specific for our needs. Since stage plays vary, they can't be used as a standard (not surprising, given the range of budgets, sets and groups that stage plays). Professional film and TV scripts do not vary.
Re Quotes Formatting: I would bring it up in Wiki Talk.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI don't think we should rely too heavily on the accepted rules for scripts and screenplays, because quotations presented on the wiki are neither - at least, not always. If we were only quoting spoken dialogue from movies and TV shows, that would be one thing, but the wiki also covers text and part-text media.
With books and other forms of prose fiction we can get around the issue by simply quoting the full text rather than in script form, but that doesn't help with things like video games, web comics, and visual novels which use text to convey dialogue and frequently use parentheses to differentiate thoughts from spoken lines, or to denote whispering. Using square brackets for any notes on tone or actions just seems to help keep things better differentiated.
Edited by JoieDeCombatThat problem there is that square brackets also signify how the quote has been altered by an editor - say if they cut part of it out, text that's been omitted is marked with [...], and if they change a pronoun, that's marked as well. Like this:
I'll write it down. You won't have to read it.
I'll write it down. [Character] won't have to read it.
Square brackets already serve both typographical and markup purposes. Parentheses plus italics don't. Using italics should make the difference clear enough. Since they work for professional scripts, they should work for us too, regardless of the medium. I added more detail in the Wiki Talk thread.
Edited by NanoMooseWe've got a Wiki talk thread now
. Take it there.

I have two questions, actually, but since one requires a simple answer and one is a request, I suspect one post will be sufficient.
The simple answer: Are square brackets actually, officially the TVTropes default for stage directions, rather than curved brackets? I've been handed that edit reason a few times, but it doesn't seem to be consistent (or even close to the majority usage) across the wiki. I went through all the instructional entries I could find that seemed relevant and can't find a single reference either way. Personally, I think square brackets look ugly used that way and already serve a typographical/markup purpose - if they're also used for stage directions, there's scope for some very broken formatting - but I'll abide by the rules if the rules exist.
The request is for someone to do...something...about Spec Ops: The Line, because the entire page is riddled with Natter and worse. Entries arguing with other entries, an incoherent and badly-formatted rant about something I can't even parse, and lengthy entries in Fridge Logic, which I thought were supposed to go to Headscratchers. The game attracts incendiary opinions no matter what, I know, but can it at least be kept down to a dull roar? I'd do it myself, but I've made my own stupid edits in the past and I don't think I have the clout or wisdom to clear it all up for good. Or even a little while.
Edited by NanoMoose