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EKonoMai Since: Apr, 2013
EKonoMai Since: Apr, 2013
2013-12-04 03:34:36

The Data Vampires made me double post. :(

Edited by EKonoMai
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2013-12-04 06:38:32

Shaoken, don't play pot-vs-kettle. You won't like the results. As far as I can tell, you're also part of this little fan war.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
2013-12-04 08:16:17

No, Shaoken is doing it right. He's arguing things over on the discussion page for every relevant example, while CPF keeps trying to rules lawyer his way around it, finding examples that haven't been pulled to discussion yet and adding his normal bias. Not to mention his rude comments in the discussion and his rather disturbing posts in the Politics of Mass Effect thread advocating genocide of a machine race.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2013-12-04 11:57:32

I would disagree with you Fighteer. You said take it to the discussion page, I have. I've made a whopping total of two edits on the matter; one on the mecha soldier page to remove a line going "all Geth you kill have crossed the Moral Event Horizon in a spectacular way" because it was false for reasons I suspect you don't care about and just begging for an Internet Backdraft, while removing it doesn't take anything away from the example. And I modified Genocide Backfire so it applied to the Geth rather than the Quarians because upon reading the criteria I saw that it couldn't apply to the Quarians. When King Zeal pulled that to the discussion, I justified my logic, and we're discussing it.

For the record, that trope puts me on the same page as CPF, so you can't accuse me of engaging in a fan war.

Also he has refused to take new edits to the discussion page, and has claimed you gave him the okay to make edits so long as he included "said by x"

Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2013-12-04 13:25:00

You're asking us to make a moderation judgement on the correctness of a fan opinion, when none of us is familiar enough with the work to do so. The wiki is not the place to have this kind of debate. We expect the examples to be statements of fact, not fandom rivalries spewing their points of view at each other.

I thought that a compromise involving having the examples specify that the statements made are assertions from the characters in question would work well to keep them objective. If that isn't enough, then I'm afraid the only remaining option is bans and/or locks for all involved, because I absolutely refuse to step in and rule on the correctness of someone's opinion.

Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
2013-12-04 14:59:39

The precise details of the fandom's opinion on this matter isn't relevant. The point is that CPF was adding examples against the consensus of the page, caused an edit war, got edit-banned, and came back after a week of cooling down. He then proceeded to add (different) examples against the consensus of the page, and other tropers pulled them into discussion rather than edit warring again.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2013-12-04 21:23:24

Pretty much what Discar said. Nobody is asking you to make a judgement on the correctness of a fan opinion. Here is the issue; there was the edit war over a trope, you suspended King Zeal and CPF for a week as Septimus brought the example to the discussion page. In said discussion page five people voted for the example to be cut (including King Zeal) and three people voted to keep it (including CPF).

Now, someone raised the idea of the "x is asserted by character y" and King Zeal agreed with that, along with CPF fan. The problem is that still leaves four people who have voted to cut the example against four to keep. Now here is the troubling part on the discussion page that I'm trying to draw your attention to;

CPF: I hope this means [Shaoken will] no longer make a big deal over having everything be stated objectively with the he said she said standard in regards to the Morning War and the geth's genocide, as I will be editing under the assumption that no one will start an edit war over it. I made sure to ask Fighteer about it just to be sure, and he said that this stance was neutral and appropriate. Does that sound reasonable enough?

Discar: No, it does not. Post the proposed edit here and we can discuss it. Just giving a vague promise of "It will totally be objective guys" is not particularly reassuring.

CPF: No. I will not spend days debating every single edit just for being geth related. Saying "character x said this" is purely factual and not debatable.

So we are right back at where we started, CPF is going to make an edit on an Internet Backdraft topic (because as someone who was in the Bioware forums after the whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco I can tell you that topic got almost as ugly as topics about the ending) without taking it to the discussion page first, on the same example that started the edit war to begin with.

Nobody is asking you to take a side, we're saying that one troper has declared their intention to ignore the discussion pages and the wishes of exactly half the people involved in the discussion.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010
2013-12-04 21:35:06

I cannot believe that there's still stupid Mass Effect arguments going on around here.

(I also can't believe that Woobie Species is a thing now. Give it a rest already.)

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2013-12-04 22:02:10

Well the ending one as far as I can see is over. But the Geth/Quarian one is very polarising, split between the "Geth are baby-killing monsters who should be destroyed," "The Geth are the poor misunderstood victims whilst the Quarians are massive Karma Houdinis" and then the middle ground which is "the Geth were put in a bad spot, but they also did some very bad things, but that doesn't mean they automatically deserve death."

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