TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Ask The Tropers

Go To

Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help. It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread for ongoing cleanup projects.

Ask the Tropers:

Trope Related Question:

Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
2024-12-05 19:27:41

Her being transfem is a revelation, sure, but it's never meant to be like, hidden nor obfuscated when she's first introduced as female, nor is it handled like some crazy dramatic reveal when she becomes an active magical girl (she already had already been long-established to have female-exclusive powers). Making it an "ABSOLUTE" spoiler seems would only make it seem like a scandalous reveal, which it is not, so no, don't spoiler it.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing Kings Quest V!
Twiddler MOD (On A Trope Odyssey)
2024-12-05 21:40:29

Spoiling out a single character name in a paragraph isn't swiss-cheese spoilering. However, I agree that Zoe being trans isn't a spoiler; it's just something that's revealed later. And the cited rant is about trans magical girls in general, not Zoe specifically.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2024-12-05 23:40:56

I cannot see how the under-comic explanation of "trans magical girls exist" necessitates the spoiler-tagging at all. Hell I'd argue it weights in the other direction, the point is that nobody is shocked by them, they are well known and accepted, it's all casual in the comic so spoilering is even less necessary.

Nethilia (Life not ruined yet)
2024-12-06 00:16:28

^^ I didn't know that about single-name spoilers. Thanks.

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
desdendelle (Sergeant)
2024-12-06 00:57:56

I don't understand how Zoe being trans is a spoiler at all — it's not like it's a twist in the plot or anything of the sort.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Vilui Since: May, 2009
2024-12-06 05:36:01

The commentary on the comic says "Whether trans magical girls are a thing is legit the #1 question I get asked about SD. I've been happy to respond to the affirmative in private, but I didn't want to make any kind of post about it until it was in the comic itself."

So I can see how someone could read that as "the author treats it as a spoiler", but to me, it looks much more like the author didn't want to make claims about the comic having trans representation until it actually did so.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
2024-12-06 14:23:00

^ Yeah, as evinced by some stuff in trivia, the author (who is a cis woman) left a lot of questions regarding gender regarding the "magical girl" archetype inconclusive due to her not feeling qualified to being able to speak on certain matters, at least at the time (she's still leaving the jury out on magical nonbinary people). That's not a case of treating the later confirmation of a female-presenting character as being transfem as a spoiler, that's just leaving certain things inconclusive until she feels confident in being able to write it, which are not the same as "zomg the character is trans!!!!!!!! dun dun dun!"

Thanks for playing Kings Quest V!
Nethilia (Life not ruined yet)
2024-12-06 16:27:49

~MB74 cleared it and cited this ATT; thanks for that. Leaving open for a bit to see if Mr_Math replies before closing.

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
Mr_Math Since: Jul, 2014
2024-12-07 08:34:43

Every single post here boils down to: "I don't think it is, therefore it isn't." That is not a valid objection. Trans people existing in general may not be a spoiler, but someone being trans when they've been stealth *is*. Revealing Zoe's gender identity before the reader has even read the comic is simply not right, for two reasons. First, it reveals a pretty big character development point before it comes up in the story, which is basically the dictionary definition of a spoiler.

And second, it disrespects Zoe by quite literally forcing her out of the closet when, at least at the beginning, she's trying to be stealth. Trans people deserve better than that, particularly now when they're under attack from all sides by politicians with agendas. Sleepless Domain does trans representation the right way, treating them with respect while also showing the challenges they face, while also-also making it more part of the background. All of this emphasizes that they are just normal people like everyone else.

We are obliged to do the same. So let's stop dismissing this as no big deal, ok? It's a spoiler, because both the comic artist and **Zoe herself** would say so. Therefore, it needs to be tagged as such.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
2024-12-07 11:32:14

"Trans in stealth"? It's just the narrative not acknowledging it — people are things they don't immediately identify as, and it wasn't treated as something worth hiding in terms of a narrative-to-audience context. It just is, and moreover, it's not a secret anymore by any stretch, including by the author.

Thanks for playing Kings Quest V!
MB74 Since: Feb, 2024
2024-12-07 11:37:06

^^For your first point, the consensus here is less "I don't think its a spoiler, therefore its not a spoiler" and more "its not portrayed as a big reveal, therefore it shouldn't be spoilered"

I’ll lift my face, and run to the sunlight.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2024-12-07 11:50:08

I don't have a huge horse in this race, but like, Zoe is a fictional character. Nobody is "forcing her out of the closet", she's not real and doesn't have feelings. I get wanting to "respect her", but ironically, treating her identity as some big secret feels more disrespectful to me than just acknowledging it openly — because it clearly wasn't portrayed as a big secret to begin with, just something the creator wasn't initially comfortable with writing.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Vilui Since: May, 2009
2024-12-07 13:02:21

In the early chapters, she's just a background character we don't know much about. That's not the same as "trying to be stealth" by any means. No-one discusses her gender identity prior to Chapter 11 simply because it's not relevant to the scenes in which she appears.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2024-12-07 13:47:59

If she had started off presenting as male and then had onscreen revelation and magical empowerment, then that would be a spoiler worthy narrative beat.

But that's not what happens. For her entire presence in the comic she is a girl, magical, and when characters learn she is trans they give an absolute zero care about it. This shows the level of trans acceptance in the comic to be at 100%. Putting spoilers on it makes it out to be a much bigger deal than it is in the comic.

Nethilia (Life not ruined yet)
2024-12-07 16:35:43

Zoe wasn't even "stealth". Her family assumed she was male (and at best, she didn't say anything) until she had the Magical Girl Dream that awakes abilities, and then they were like "we were incorrect, she's like her older sister" and have been shown to support her since.

The Rant says less about how it's a hushed secret that there's a stealth character and more that, at the time that comic was posted, the author didn't want to give more detail about a Trans magical girl until Zoe was shown fully and not just referenced in a line by a rescued family that they had a magical girl in their family they didn't know the gender of properly until it happened.

Edited by Nethilia I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
Nethilia (Life not ruined yet)
2024-12-07 16:38:28

To add the rant for people: And about the comic: whether trans magical girls are a thing is legit the #1 questions I get asked about SD. I've been happy to respond to the affirmative in private, but I didn't want to make any kind of post about it until it was in the comic itself. But yes, it's definitely a thing! No, I will not be fielding any specific questions about the physicality of it.

So the author isn't saying "this is a HUGE SPOILER - warn people", she's saying "I didn't want to bring the topic up publicly until it was discussed in the comic."

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
Top