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Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-10-11 03:00:07

Yes, hurricane or two enemies can be called an "army" in this context. Bolivian Army Ending isn't about armies.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Kisujj Since: Jun, 2023
2023-10-11 03:07:45

I know it isn't about armies. But isn't it about a large group of people? That would be what one calls impossible odds. I'd say the inherent part of the trope is deliberately exaggerated number of enemies. And other cases can be labeled as Downer Ending, for example the one about the hurricane. If the examples with two or three people can be called downplayed, the examples of a hurricane and a single monster are something else.

Edited by Kisujj
Octoya Since: Jul, 2014
2023-10-11 04:26:45

The trope is not about a large group of people—it is, as the description says, about a character facing impossible odds against them at the end of the story. The fact that the trope title says "army" is just to reference the Trope Namer; the amount of people, or whether or not it involves people at all, is irrelevant to whether or not it fits the trope. If the characters' odds are implied by the narrative to be insurmountable, but it comes short of actually showing the character falling to them (which would be required for it to be a Downer Ending), then that's all that matters.

Akriloth2160 Since: Nov, 2009
2023-10-11 04:30:38

A large group of people can certainly be an example of insurmountable odds depending on context, but reading the trope description shows that the trope is more about the odds themselves, not the specific reason for those odds. To wit, this needn't necessarily involve an army or a large group of people or "number of enemies" if the examples for The Cabin in the Woods, both listed endings for Dawn of the Dead (1978), or the Phoenix ending from Marvel vs. Capcom 3 are any indicator (and those are just examples I picked out, the page almost certainly has more).

Edited by Akriloth2160 Ronnie, Ronnie
Kisujj Since: Jun, 2023
2023-10-11 04:55:16

What about the In Bruges example? A character loses a one-on-one fight and is shown on the verge of dying, cue the end. Is it valid as an example? Is the main point in not showing the death of a character, even if it is a one-on-one thing?

Edited by Kisujj
Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-10-11 05:08:29

"the inherent part of the trope is deliberately exaggerated number of enemies"

Nowhere does Bolivian Army Ending say that.

"for example the one about the hurricane"

To be Downer Ending the fate has to be certain. Bolivian Army Ending is when it's uncertain. So if characters face a hurricane and they could escape if it was shown, it would be an example.

  • In Bruges ends with the main character losing consciousness on a stretcher being loaded into an ambulance, after getting filled with bullets. He decides that he doesn't want to die and wonder if hell is like Bruges. We don't find out whether he survives.

Sounds like it, because whatever he dies is ambiguous.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Kisujj Since: Jun, 2023
2023-10-11 05:14:35

I know that the trope page does not emphasize the point about a deliberately exaggerated number of enemies. To me, that is strange. It turns out, so far the Bolivian Army Ending trope looks like a duplicate of the Cliffhanger trope. In both cases there are some difficult odds, and the result is uncertain. What is the difference between these pages then?

Edited by Kisujj
Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-10-11 05:18:44

Cliffhanger is any dramatic plot stopping abruptly and continuing in sequel / next episode.

Bolivian Army Ending does not continue and is about ambiguous survival.

Which puts Uncertain Doom and Bolivian Army Cliffhanger into a weird spot, so it should probably be settled in new Trope Talk which is what.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Kisujj Since: Jun, 2023
2023-10-11 05:25:13

I think the point about the uncertainty of survival is not really about this trope. The current image for the trope clearly shows that the character is going to die. The trope namer, the movie about Butch and Sundance is also clear about that. Are there really people who think they survive being surrounded by an army? When they are shown to run out in the open and continue shooting, being already riddled with bullets? I think the result is not ambiguous really, at least it is not a necessary condition for the trope.

Edited by Kisujj
Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2023-10-11 07:08:26

This is a discussion for Trope Talk.

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