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The TVTropes Trope Finder is where you can come to ask questions like "Do we have this one?" and "What's the trope about...?" Trying to rediscover a long lost show or other medium but need a little help? Head to Media Finder and try your luck there. Want to propose a new trope? You should be over at the Trope Launch Pad.

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GingerSnaps Since: Mar, 2011
2012-04-23 04:38:31

Like this, [[spoiler: whatever it is you want to white-out.]].

What is this "sleep" you speak of?
Jenovacaine Since: Jun, 2012
2012-04-23 15:15:29

Nooooo, Batman Gambit's a ploy where the schemer gets people to unintentionally help them out by exploiting their psychological hubris or insecurities. This is the villain getting (or at least claiming to get) the hero to fulfill their plan for them despite their best efforts to stop the hero from doing just that.

FuzzyWulfe Since: Nov, 2010
2012-04-23 16:23:40

Meaning that it's a Batman Gambit where the villain takes an active role in maintaining the ploy. Batman did the same thing in an episode of B:tAS to get info from an assassin. He set up the hit on himself and then fought the guy on several occasions to maintain the ruse. He could have just taken the guy at any one of those assassination attempts, but he relied on his belief he could survive any trap to gain enough trust from the guy to get the info he wanted.

Jenovacaine Since: Jun, 2012
2012-04-26 06:23:08

Well, that is slightly different. In that case, it was Batman (i.e. the plotter himself) who was putting himself in danger. And even then, he really wasn't. He just tasked the guy with getting his cape and cowl. He could have forfeited them at any time, and he eventually did, if he got into an inescapable scrape. In the cases I'm referring to, the plotter is relying on someone else surviving a dangerous ordeal in order to fulfill their own agenda, and then they seemingly forget their own plan and attack their own patsy. I mean, it's one thing to make things moderately difficult for the hero so that they don't become too suspicious. It's another thing entirely to throw everything you've got at them before they've completed their task.

Another example suddenly springs to my mind. In this one Sonic the Hedgehog animated movie I saw (about 8000 times) when I was a kid, Dr. Eggman claims that an evil robot Dr. Eggman has taken over his empire and is going to blow up the world because mwuhahaha. Sonic reluctantly goes to stop him, knowing there's a good 90% Eggman's story is bullshit (it is), and lo and behold, it's a ploy to capture Sonic and... um, shock him in order to give life to Metal Sonic... somehow. Anyway, the point is that on his way there, Sonic gets attacked by Metal Robotnik, which of course is Eggman in a giant mech. Sonic wins, but had he not, Eggman's plan (which involved more than simply killing Sonic) would have been totally fubarred. And the idea that in these sorts of examples the villain is counting on the hero overcoming despite all this doesn't really hold up because (1) if their main objective is for the hero to collect the pieces of the Amulet of Anubis or lure the heroine out of hiding for them, it doesn't really further those plans at all for them to make the hero's job harder, and (2) if they're that confident that the hero will be able to take anything thrown at them, then they really shouldn't be surprised when the hero manages to stop their grand scheme after the inevitable "Haha! I tricked you!" reveal.

Edited by Jenovacaine
ShanghaiSlave Since: Mar, 2012
2012-04-26 07:31:17

that's got to be MacGuffin Delivery Service. or at least, the metal gear example is.

Also, from how I see it, in Batman Gambit, the schemer does not necessarily have to "take part" in the scheme itself. the scheme does rely on the guy being schemed doing what he does best, however, as in the page image.

Edited by ShanghaiSlave Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Jenovacaine Since: Jun, 2012
2012-04-27 06:26:47

Okay, it's almost EXACTLY that (MacGuffin Delivery Service, that is), with the big caveat that instead of the villain just patiently waiting while the hero retrieves said MacGuffin, he or she actively dogs and hampers the hero's quest. Another good example from Quest for Camelot: After Kayley escapes from Ruber's men into the forbidden forest, Ruber allows her to search for Excalibur so that she can lead him right to it. He then presumably forgets all about this plan about an hour later and tries to kill her once more, despite her and her allies now being chased by dragons, which he in turn has to fight after the heroes make a quick escape.

Edited by Jenovacaine
ShanghaiSlave Since: Mar, 2012
2012-04-27 10:08:00

it's mentioned in the MacGuffin Delivery Service page that the scheme could take the form of a Xanatos Gambit. so that might justify the villain actively trying to kill the hero. where if he kills the hero, he gets the map to the MacGuffin, if he doesn't, he can just have someone tail the hero and steal the MacGuffin when the heroes gets it.

you can try to YKTTW that if you want, but if you ask me, MacGuffin Delivery Service got it covered.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Chariset Since: Jan, 2001
2012-04-27 13:51:23

And there's always the tried-and-true Evil Gloating

Jenovacaine Since: Jun, 2012
2012-05-02 07:19:03

Eh, I may or may not. It definitely is covered under MacGuffin Delivery Service. It's just a question of whether or not it's a significant enough subcategory to merit its own trope page.

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