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STARCRUSHER99 (Captain)
2023-08-01 07:25:06

When you say red links or links to non-existing pages - do you mean links to pages that don't exist and never will exist, or links to pages that just haven't been created yet? If it's the former, then it's a problem, but if it's the latter, they're actually in the right and the links should probably be re-added.

Yindee Since: Jul, 2016
2023-08-01 07:34:23

^ Per Trivia.One Piece at least it looks like they're making links to subpages that have a chance of existing in the future, broken down by arcs that exist as Recap/ pages. Some arc Trivia/ subpages already exist.

Vehicle Based Characterization | Grief Induced Split | Locker Mail
Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-08-01 07:34:46

By Red Link, red links are encouraged for works, meaning promoting creation of new work pages.

From what I understand, bud0011 is creating redlinks to subpages, ie YMMV pages for characters (??) or Trivia pages for story arcs with no intention of filling them in. But that needs a deeper look through history.

While at it, I don't understand the use of Star Wars-style character indexes on individual recap pages they're making.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
TheTropper (Unitroper)
2023-08-01 09:17:19

The issue is that Trivia and YMMV doesn't need a complete list of every other from recaps and side-material, it's too redundant.

Bud0011 has already edit warred. They added the list here, I later deleted it, then they immediately added it back again.

Edited by TheTropper Your receipt. You can keep the freakin' change.
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-01 17:25:56

There wasn't any reason to remove it, nor was it brought up here to gather consensus before they got removed and decleared "unneeded".

The trivia, character and YMMV pages for each arc exist and aren't immediately reachable from the main One Piece pages, so I added them in.

I also added them to the main pages for the purposes of giving them indexes, since I couldn't go from Characters.One Piece Buggy The Clown Arc to Characters.One Piece Kuro Arc without going to their respective recap pages as an intermediary.

Also, the page YMMV.One Piece Whitebeard Pirates already existed before I came along, I just added it to the main One Piece YMMV page so people could find it easier.

Edited by bud0011
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-01 17:56:10

That being said, I do apologize for editing warring.

And for making, what I guess was an unilateral decision without discussing it first.

fishysaur Since: May, 2018
2023-08-02 00:21:30

The issue isn't much the link to the specific YMMV or trivia pages, but the links that lead to non-existing pages, which just occupy needless space

There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 03:54:27

The reason I added a "complete list of current arcs" was so others didn't have to go in and fill in the gaps when said non-existing pages are created.

And as mentioned above, red links are not only allowed, but encouraged.

fishysaur Since: May, 2018
2023-08-02 04:10:52

Are encouraged to promote the creation of new pages, but if noone creates said pages, what is their purpose?

There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 04:18:07

How do you know that no one is going to create new pages if they are removed before anyone has a chance to read them?

Edited by bud0011
Arctimon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2023-08-02 06:29:22

“red links are not only allowed, but encouraged.“

For works. Not subpages.

And you’re going about this backwards. If people have examples, they’ll make the pages. It’s not the other way around.

Nothing is going to happen if every single arc doesn’t have a trivia page this instant.

bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 06:33:50

And no harm will come to the pages, nor the site, if a list of red links show up that can be created at a later date.

bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 07:26:19

Ok, rereading the thread, I think some parts of what I am trying to do/say aren't coming across as I had hoped they would.

So, here's are my main goals with posting the list.

1. Index every arc, video game, movie, etc.'s existing Trivia, Character and YMMV subpage on the equivalent main page for the franchise. 2. Create space in the indexing for pages that don't exist yet, so people don't have to edit the main page to add them themselves.

I did both at the same time, since it was easier to do a text replace on the full list from Recap.One Piece, than to make a list of already existing pages.

I'm not looking to create myself, or have created by others, every missing page within a short timespan, since A) I don't know every trope in existance for every arc, nor do I expect anyone else to; and B) I don't want people creating stub pages for no other reason than to turn a red link blue.

From what I can tell, most of this thread has been argueing against my second point.

While only some, like The Tropper, argue against the first.

So, can I add a list of pages, similar to my original idea, but have the non-existing pages commented out?

Then if and when someone creates the page, they can just uncomment it.

Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-08-02 08:17:29

To answer why we don't make redlinks for everything.

Because we have an overarching standard "pages should look finalized without placeholders". Work pages are the sole exception because they are "wanted pages", these works exist somewhere and we encourage people making pages for them. Everything else we don't encourage, pages are made when there's something to add, which may as well be never.

No objection to indexing existing pages, for the record. Actually they are required to be indexed if they are part of a larger page.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
fishysaur Since: May, 2018
2023-08-02 12:07:52

Since we're here, just asking, should we keep these red links or is it better to remove them? Considering that many pages will probably never exists...

There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up
Mrph1 MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2023-08-02 12:18:09

When the same thing's happened on comic pages (X-Men, I think?), the steer was to cut them. I'll see if I can find that thread.

As Amonimus points out, pages should look finalised without placeholders - I'd personally agree.

Edited by Mrph1
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 12:48:40

My current plan is to do as I said above: collect and index existing pages, comment out non-existing pages so people in the future can add it if it gets created.

Edited by bud0011
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2023-08-02 12:50:18

You can't just comment these things out, that's not how it works, just let people add this stuff themselves if they create the pages maybe? It completely defeats the purpose of even adding redlinks if you go and hide them from people.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 13:39:56

If people were already adding them to the/a list, I wouldn't have started up the lists in the first place.

So your recommending we keep them visible?

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2023-08-02 13:42:12

No, I'm recommending getting rid of them. We don't add filler just in the hopes that someone will eventually make these pages; just let the subpages be made at their own pace if a need arises.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 13:57:38

I don't think there's any software limitation preventing me from commenting something out, so I don't know what you mean by "that's not how it works".

And I'm honestly getting frustrated at the fact that every time I turn around in the last few months, there's a new policy, rule, procedure, etc. that I had no idea about. (and concerned that one of these days, I'm going to accidentally break one too many rules and get banned).

Red links aren't bad. Including them in a page as we have been discussing doesn't make it look any more or less finalized.

Not sure why everyone on this thread decided to go against them, but I know well enough when to drop idea that has proven unpopular.

AegisP Since: Oct, 2014
2023-08-02 14:05:49

These are not new policies, you have broken well stablished rules.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2023-08-02 14:09:23

...You do know there's a stark difference between "something the site's code physically stops" and "something you shouldn't do", right? I'm not saying that it's impossible to hide these links, I'm saying you should not hide the links, doing so would be completely unhelpful and possibly rule-breaking.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 14:20:04

Which rules did I break and where in wiki are these rules documented?

STARCRUSHER99 (Captain)
2023-08-02 14:22:06

One of the rules of adding any example is that you can't add a pre-commented example - otherwise, what's even the point of adding it? The same principle would apply if you're making a link to a page that doesn't need to be made, only to just pre-comment them out when there's backlash. If the pages get made, then they'll get made, but Red Links are only supposed to be included for work pages or creator pages that don't exist yet to encourage page creation. I don't see what kind of page this encourages

bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 15:04:27

How's Characters.One Piece?

I only included stuff that exists, and things that were listed twice in my original list, like movies, have been reduced to 1 item in the list.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2023-08-02 15:11:29

That has nothing to do with this; the debate is about the redlinks specifically, not the lists in general.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bud0011 Since: Jan, 2001
2023-08-02 16:31:11

Trivia and YMMV pages also updated to have the red links removed

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